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Re-Enrolled
#7 The Minimalists: Less Is Now: The True Cost of Consumerism
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Can you imagine finding true happiness and freedom by owning less? That's the provocative question we tackle in this episode of the Re-Enrolled Podcast. Inspired by the Netflix documentary "The Minimalists: Less is Now" featuring Joshua Fields Millburn and Ryan Nicodemus, we dissect the core principles of minimalism and its transformative impact on our lives. Carlos shares his journey in real estate, revealing how his preference for uncluttered spaces shaped his natural affinity for minimalism. Together, we challenge the pervasive consumer mindset, particularly in America, and expose the marketing strategies that manipulate us into associating more possessions with greater happiness.
You'll hear firsthand accounts of navigating the tricky waters of consumerism and sentimentality. We shed light on controversial marketing tactics, like those employed by Starbucks, and the emotional manipulation behind deficit advertising that affects our self-esteem and spending habits. Through personal anecdotes, we explore the emotional tug-of-war between holding onto sentimental items and recognizing that our memories and connections aren't tied to material things. This episode encourages a balanced approach to sentimental possessions, emphasizing thoughtful consumption and financial responsibility.
Extreme minimalism and its impact on decision fatigue come under the spotlight as we discuss Joshua and Ryan's minimalist experiments. By reevaluating material possessions and happiness, we delve into societal norms that equate success with material wealth and highlight the true sources of joy found in health and meaningful relationships. We share our own stories of shifting from a materialistic mindset to one focused on deeper values, discussing the irony of the American dream and the importance of individual reflection. Join us as we unpack the virtues of minimalism, from reducing physical clutter for mental clarity to navigating consumer decision-making with mindfulness and intention.
I think you're better at intros, man. No, you have the intro voice. I'm the intro voice. No, you have a better voice. I think the reviews are in. I think you have the best voice. No, okay. Well, welcome back, guys, to another episode of the Re-Enrolled Podcast. This week we did. We watched a documentary on Netflix. You probably heard of it. The Minimalist Less is Now week we did. We watched a documentary on netflix. You probably heard of it the minimalist less is now. In this uh documentary we go over the journey of joshua fields millburn and ryan nicodemus, who are big advocates of minimalism and, in theory, what is minimalism? Just to get straight to the point, the way they describe it is minimalism. Minimalism is about living with less and finding happiness and freedom in fewer possessions. And again, I believe throughout the documentary they actually share various definitions of minimalism, but that's kind of like the summary of what they mentioned. So, yeah, so Carlos picked this one this week. Is there a reason specific why you chose this, carlos?
Speaker 2:you know, I think at the core I agreed with some of their concepts even before watching the episode, because I do know that they have some content online. They have a podcast, they have this docu documentary on netflix. They might even have a book. I haven't read the book, but they might have a couple other things out there.
Speaker 2:And you know, I've been in real estate for a couple of years and when I look at real estate pictures, when I look at a living room kitchen, naturally I'm drawn to properties that have less stuff, like I don't know why, it's just my. My natural inclination is inclined or it goes towards kitchens with less stuff. And when I saw this on netflix pop up I was like it's, it's worth, you know, seeing it, I really liked it and that's what we're doing it this week. It's also very short for anyone that wants to watch it. Netflix the minimalist less is now. I think if you liked, if you like what you hear in this podcast, you'll definitely benefit from seeing the story. You know by them, you know spoken by them yeah, and it's a.
Speaker 1:It's so short that you know sometimes you're just clicking that button during you you have your food, food cooked, and you're like trying to eat something and watch something.
Speaker 1:It's like a perfect amount of length to watch. So again there's various gems and again we're not going to do like a deep dive of every section of what they talk about, but we both pick different quotes or different things we liked about the documentary and just kind of share what we think about it, the documentary, and just kind of share what we think about it. Um, I, just one thing I want to just start with is that when he began, when you begin this documentary is beginning, we see David Ramsey say we just love stuff. Uh, and it just talks about the consumer mindset that, especially in America, right, uh, any first world country, but especially in America, is very prevalent. Any first world country, but especially in america, is very prevalent, right? Yeah, do you think this is a something that you agree with? That like everyone just loves stuff? Is that like a normal thing to day to day?
Speaker 2:I agree, if you're not really intentional and you don't really have a lot of high level of self reflection and understanding yourself, you can start to fill certain voids in you with stuff. And that's kind of actually their story, right? If you remember, they grew up poor. Both of them were actually one of them more than the other, and I think it was Joshua that he mentioned that he made a promise to himself that when he grew up he was going to have a lot of money.
Speaker 2:yeah, and to some degree he succeeded, right like in the beginning of the story, before he embarks in this journey of having less stuff, he had climbed up the corporate ladder pretty quickly, got a lot of money but also got in a lot of debt. Like he, his purchasing didn't keep up with his income, even though he earned a lot of money. But it wasn't until his mom died that the lesson really stuck with him. He learned that maybe he was doing something that wasn't working, because as he bought more and more stuff for both of them for of the of the, I guess, the authors of this docu series they didn't feel that void. They didn't become happier. They were promised that if you keep buying you'll be happier.
Speaker 2:But that's just not the truth. That's not the fact. And I think a lot of us are kind of in the same boat, right when, when you're young and you want certain things for some reason or another, you can't have them, or they tell you that you can't have them. You grew up and you want certain things for some reason or another, you can't have them, or they tell you that you can't have them. You grew up and you're like oh well, happiness is on the other side of all those things I couldn't have before, but you find out that it's a lie and what.
Speaker 1:what crazy stat that I had was that we feel this way, but it's not by randomness, right, it's by choice. It's like there's a stat that was mentioned that $240 billion a year on marketing is spent, which are focused to make us feel like we need the stuff they're selling.
Speaker 1:So like those feelings aren't like just because, like they're not random, it's by design right there's there's so much content on social media, on tv, like just consistently everywhere, the colors they use, like everything is designed to make you feel like, oh, that feeling of sadness, the reason you're feeling that, oh, it isn't because of x, y and z, it's because you haven't bought this next thing or you haven't bought this clothes. So it is fascinating to see their journey, especially because they went to the extreme of, you know, having a lot of money but not a lot of people. Average income household don't ever even reach those numbers of money. But specifically, joshua did both of them actually, I think they're working for the same firm, I think even um. But it is fascinating how they became this reality of analyzing like, okay, this isn't bringing me happiness, so what do I gotta do?
Speaker 2:yeah, and in a way, I think the show kind of opened me up to a topic that I don't know a lot about, which is marketing. I mean, we are against masters of marketing, like they were discussing intelligent and predictive ads, like on your phone, if you do a simple search for an espresso machine which I've done recently and then you don't end up buying it. You were just doing research, you just wanted to know what's out there what's going to?
Speaker 2:happen in the next weeks after that is that you're going to see a lot of other espresso machines and that's because marketing companies are aware, like if he googled something, there's some interest yeah maybe you know like they can follow your phone and if you frequent coffee shops like they're just really smart people behind those companies that you know kind of create this urge in you of wanting more stuff, so, like especially kids or young people, it's going to be a tough battle. If you're not conscious of this Because I don't think when was it? About a year ago I was seeing that Starbucks got sued because what they were doing was actually kind of tricky. So when you went into a coffee shop, like a local coffee shop, they would track that, let's say, you frequent here in Tucson cartel on Wednesday afternoons. Starbucks would find out because you enabled the ability for it to locate you yeah.
Speaker 2:Without even knowing. You're like oh, it's convenient, because then I can do the mobile order.
Speaker 1:It works so you do it, they convince you.
Speaker 2:Well now Starbucks knows that on Wednesday afternoons you're craving coffee, but you're not going to them. So what are they going to do? They're going to send you a coupon On Wednesdays afternoons.
Speaker 1:On.
Speaker 2:Wednesday afternoons. If you buy a coffee at that time, you can get a half off, or you can get 100 bonus stars or whatever. Is it fair? Maybe, I don't know. We're not here to discuss the ethical part of it, but it is the kind of companies that you're facing. So you're constantly bombarded with a really unhealthy feeling of you're not enough, yeah, you're not smart. Like, yeah, you're not smart enough, you're not good looking enough.
Speaker 2:You're not strong enough, but you would be if you bought this clothes, like if you work out, but you don't have. You know this brand. I don't know what you're doing.
Speaker 1:You're not gonna be healthy, like it doesn't work that way yeah, it is pretty like crazy, like it just really makes you realize like, oh man, we're all playing this game, but a lot of us don't acknowledge or realize we're in this game, right, like they're just going at it while they're being attacked by all this marketing and and the word that described this type of marketing is a deficit advertisement, in which you spoke about, about we are not enough. That's the type of advertisement that they're attacking us with, which is honestly like again, we're not going to go into morality or ethics. It's kind of sad.
Speaker 1:It's, it's going against humanity's you know feelings, right and and using it against them to sell them more Right, and it's. It's crazy. It's really, really eye-opening watching this, this documentary, but again, like, like anything we intake, it's like we have to pause and like, okay, what am I gonna do different just because I learned something new? Like what could I do differently to? Again, can we beat this, these companies? Probably not right, like they have so much millions of dollars of expert coders or whatever, like making sure that they influence us, but you can at least be aware of it to hopefully protect yourself a little bit yeah, yeah, and I think you know there's there's differences, right?
Speaker 2:I'm me personally, I don't feel like my life focuses on the accumulation of stuff yeah some people might agree with that, like but how is it that we end up with so much stuff and they kind of discuss it as well? I think a perfect example of that was joshua's mom. Right when she passed away. He made a trip to go see her and she wasn't a hoarder by any means, like that's not the the picture of his mom that joshua paints for us, but she had a lot of stuff like, and I think that they actually gave us an estimate. The estimated house in the united states has about 300 000 different items or 270 000, yeah so how does that happen?
Speaker 2:you know, like sometimes it's not even that you're buying stuff. You could be getting gifts, you could be, you know, keeping cans of food that you don't even plan of eating. You just have them there just in case, just in case. Or articles of clothing that you know you're not gonna wear.
Speaker 1:They don't even fit you well anymore, but you know if you happen to lose half your weight in the next six months hey, carlos, don't be judging my gym shirt I still have from high school.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm gonna wear it one day, and that's actually interesting that you mentioned high school, though, because one of my key takeaways or one of two, and we can discuss the other one later, but the first one is he he mentioned how his mom had some boxes under her bed right, and it was like number one through four and in those boxes were like special items that perhaps didn't have much value besides sentimental value.
Speaker 2:They were like you know, maybe he got a good grade in school and she would keep it there, or a picture or something like that, and he mentioned, you know, like my mom wasn't holding on to stuff, she was holding on to me, like she thought these things reminded her of me and there was like some form of connection. And I think a lot of us do that, oh yeah, without even thinking right Like we hold on to a picture or an article that we got from someone that at some point maybe it had to use, right like yeah let's say, someone gave you a coffee machine and you used it.
Speaker 2:Now it doesn't work, but you don't throw it away because you know it was a gift someone gave this yeah and there's some. You know that that sounds nice.
Speaker 2:I feel like that I don't want to be out in there and say, oh, you know, as soon as something's not worth anything, just throw it away. But if you do that for 60 years, you know 40, 50 years you can end up with a lot of stuff that you keep just because it reminds you of something. But you know, the lesson he drew is our memories are not our things. Do you happen to agree with that? Or are you a little more on the sentimental side? You feel like we should hold on to things. You can talk about that, that shirt you have from high school I think there's a I like everything and we always talk about.
Speaker 1:I feel like there's no like extreme one way. I think if you're balanced with it, it's fine. Like, for example, there's people who collect, you know, magnets from everywhere they go. Like just they go and buy one magnet of that place, okay, okay, that doesn't sound too much of a big problem. But if you plan to buy a magnet and a picture and multiple things of everywhere you're going, then yeah, that's going to be a large amount of stuff that you probably won't value. I will say, in regards to memories, I do think that I fall into that. For example, I have every card I was given when I graduated high school, like just saying, like congratulations. Some people didn't even write anything on it, they just bought the dang card, you know. And they're like here you go, bro. And they just signed it, you know. You're like Target said it best. Here you go, I got no words for you.
Speaker 2:I can't beat Target here you go, bro.
Speaker 1:And they just signed it. You know you're like target said it best. Here you go. I can't beat target. Here you go, bro. But my point being is I still have all of them. And then there's moments where I've had like, oh, I should just throw these away, like what am I gonna do with these? Yeah, but when I, when I decide to grab them and throw them away, I do like one last look right and I start reading them again and like it brings me happiness.
Speaker 1:Like, oh man, like that was so kind what they said. Oh, I can't throw them away and I put them back in the box, you know yeah, I think that is expanded by you know by a lot, with a lot of things right and like, for example, like maybe you went to a concert and you collect that ticket stub it was the first concert with maybe your friends, and then that just trickles of an effect, like there's multiple things.
Speaker 1:you do that and then you just end up having just a bunch of stuff. And I think the key component that he highlights in regards to that that stuff aren't memories is that he's like when was the last time my mom actually looked through these boxes? He's like it's probably been decades since she went through these boxes. So even though the idea was beautiful, right, oh, I want to hold on to my child and think of, oh, when he was a kid, and all like his bad handwriting. It's a beautiful thought, right, it's beautiful. But when do we actually stop and actually go through that stuff? So I guess like there's two answers to that. One answer is well, maybe once a year, go through your stuff and maybe they bring value and happiness to you and that's why you, that's how you justify having it. But the other extreme is like, well, you never look at it ever. Why even have it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think, like you said, with anything, balance is key.
Speaker 2:You know, what I really liked about his story is, you know, when he first went to go through his stuff and see what he was going to sell, give away, keep he mentioned that.
Speaker 2:You know he came to the realization that maybe some of those stuff could have, could be used by someone else, like I think what ended up happening is he ended up selling and donating a lot of this stuff and whatever he sold he donated to like charities that helped her during her cancer treatment. So he still did some stuff with the things she owned, but at the end he only kept a couple of things, like a small box of things that reminded her, reminded him of her, and I think, if we do that with our stuff as well, because I I think I have the same thing, like in my closet there's, there's a box with things that I have sentimental value to me, and over the years, instead of one box, there's like two small boxes and maybe in the next 10 years there'll be three small boxes yeah and at some point you have to like really go through them and maybe raise the rent, and whoever's not able to pay it, you throw them away.
Speaker 2:You know, like raise the rent of happiness, like how much happiness you bring me.
Speaker 1:I'm not making the cut this year grandma these 20 dollars weren't enough, grandma and you just throw it away Wow, yeah, it is a habit we can potentially meditate on. And his friend Ryan. He did the extreme right. So, Joshua, they grew up together, Joshua and Ryan, and at some point, when Joshua started making these big changes of minimalism- he shared what he was feeling.
Speaker 1:He was increasing his joy, more satisfaction. Joshua was sharing that to Ryan and Ryan did the extreme. He's like oh well, I love this. I don't feel happy either. I need to make these changes. And his tactic was interesting. Did you find what he did, uh, unique or extreme? Like what did you think?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, it's because joshua recommended. You know the challenge which we can discuss a little bit later.
Speaker 2:If anyone's interested in, you know, partaking in some of the things that they um kind of promote.
Speaker 2:But the way his friend did it differently is, he said I was in a hurry, like I wanted results quickly because he had noticed joshua had become happier over time.
Speaker 2:So he said, instead of going slowly through my things and getting rid of the things I thought I didn't use, I basically packed all my stuff like I was moving, which you know, if we were moving we would pack everything, like nothing would be unpacked. And then over the next two or three weeks I unpacked, item by item, the things I would use, so the shirts that I would use, you know, the furniture that I would use, maybe the TV, like every item that he actually had to use in the next three weeks he unpacked. By the end of those three weeks he discovered that 80% of his stuff was still in boxes, like he never used it within that month or those three weeks. He discovered that 80% of his stuff was still in boxes. He never used it within that month or those three weeks, and then he would donate all of that, which seems extreme, but if you have more of a severe problem with stuff, that might be a route you want to take.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I related with his mentality more than the action in itself. I'm not sure if I would be able to just do that. I respect that.
Speaker 1:I do agree that I feel like I'm like that, I'm like that personality, that I'm just like, if I'm going to do it, why just dive in? That's kind of my personality. So I did respect it. But I found that fascinating. Let's say, you don't give away all that stuff, right, but just the exercise of visually seeing what do I actually use is so interesting because, like day to day, like if there, if life were a video game and everything you touched turned red, let's say like, and you could visually see everything you've touched and use. Okay, then you can see like this is what I'm using, this is what I'm not using yeah, but life isn't that. So I think this is a great exercise to visually see, like, what are my favorite shirts or pants or ties or whatever that you're consistently using, and what about the rest of the stuff that you have yeah and I think that I respect that and I want to get there.
Speaker 1:I feel like I've had these up and downs. I feel like you're closer to it than me in regards to minimalism. I feel like we respect certain business leaders that have a mindset in regards to choice, leaders that have a mindset in regards to choice, and one of the things a lot of business leaders talk about is if I can remove little things, like choices I have to make, like clothing or car or whatever, if I can remove these choices, then it becomes easier and I can focus more time on the bigger, important things.
Speaker 1:Again amazing concept it's. It can be harder to apply.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a bit extreme. It's like Steve Jobs only wearing turtlenecks. Like, yeah it might help in the morning. Yeah, but you might not want to go that route. I think there's a term for it. I think it's called decision fatigue.
Speaker 1:Decision fatigue and a lot of business owners.
Speaker 2:They prescribe to the idea that you know every single single decision we make, which we make a lot in a day that we don't even think about, those kind of tire us out. So like if you're making a lot of small decisions that probably don't really matter that much for your well-being, you're going to be a lot more tired by the time you get to your work day or you know more important part of your day, your creative pursuits, whatever and you're more tired. Like you, you already made enough choices for that day. I don't know if that's the way the brain works. I would love to like maybe talk about it more.
Speaker 1:If we read something that you know navigates that a bit more yeah, but it is an interesting topic yeah, and with that uh mindset of how people view things and stuff and how it affects potentially your decision making as well, yeah, what do you think is the current status or state of, like american culture in regards to consumerism? Do you think it's getting better? Is it getting worse? Like, especially with like movements like this, like tiny living minimalism? There's been like big fads which, in a good way, they mean good, but do you think it's the same Like? Do you think there has been an impact?
Speaker 2:I think it varies. I think you know I can only speak for myself and kind of the culture that I grew up in.
Speaker 2:You know, not even too long ago, someone was describing success, and they were not talking to me. They were talking to someone else in my family and they were mentioning how they didn't do so bad, the reason being that they had all this stuff and all these trips and all these, you know, basically material possessions, and me thinking they're not wrong. They haven't done so bad, but not for those reasons. They haven't done so bad because you know they're not wrong. They haven't done so bad, but not for those reasons. They haven't done so bad because you know they're healthy.
Speaker 2:They've been able to you know, enjoy their life and, you know, without major problems, they have children that are respectful, professional, like. Those are the things that actually they should be proud of, be proud of, but still, as a society, especially, you know, growing up poor or maybe, you know, without the ability to get some stuff if you're able to get those things, it's natural that people are going to be like, oh, this is success, this is what's cool and I think it's going to take people individually not as a society as a whole, but like people individually to really reflect on what is actually important, like what is actually what's bringing me value and happiness, because it's not the things you own.
Speaker 2:It's not going to be that.
Speaker 1:It's going to be deeper and like not discussing this episode, but you know things that matter a lot more yeah, what's so interesting is like do you think, for example, like I, have family members that feel the same that and we've talked about it in the past a little bit that they use things your possessions as a measure of value or happiness? Right, even though maybe inside they don't feel happiness, but what they portray is happiness based on quantity of material possessions? Now the question is, with something like minimalism that takes this hard reality check of basically saying what I've been doing is wrong, it's not getting me closer to where I want to get, so I have to change these habits, and it takes a lot of humility to do that.
Speaker 1:Right, because think of someone who's for a long time like always, bought name brand clothing you know gadgets and you know, spend money, spend money, debt, spend money, yeah, with the hope of getting happiness. To then do a hard e-break, right and saying wow, um, um, this isn't. I've been telling everybody that I'm happy but I'm not. Like that takes a lot of humility, right.
Speaker 2:So I think it'd be hard to just hit that e-break and make a change yeah, what do you think would motivate someone to actually do such a big change like that well, I think, just like in the episode it was discussed a little briefly the only way you make that change drastically is if you face like the brick wall, if you're like, oh, wow, like I'm going in the wrong direction like I have all this stuff, the fancy apartment, the fancy you know clothes, the nice cars, and I'm not getting closer like I'm not happier than I was last year, right, and you know, it's interesting because for ryan his journey was in high school.
Speaker 2:He didn't know what he was going to do after high school but he was working with his dad at a nice you know maybe middle class home and he has his dad like what would it take to get this house? I really like this house, he said. I think if you earn about $50,000 a year, it was probably a long time ago.
Speaker 1:That's not the case anymore, yeah not the case anymore.
Speaker 2:If you earn that much, you can probably buy this house. So that was his goal. Like his goal was you know, if I can make $50,000 a year, I can buy that house and be happy because I would be happy in that house and he would make that Right after high school. Not long after that he got a job that he made. That he's like I don't feel like I'm that happy. He's like oh, I didn't adjust for inflation. It's been a couple of years. Maybe it's $65,000 now, not $50,000.
Speaker 2:So, he tried to get 65 and he just kept scooting it up six figures, more and more, yeah, until he actually realized, like this is not it, like I'm going in the wrong direction. And I think in our lives, the only way that we stop giving so much value to things and more to like the actual things that matter or that are not things usually it's if we, if we get a true sense that we're going in the wrong direction. It does take a lot of humility.
Speaker 2:It does take, you know, stop competing with people, right because a lot of times people are doing stuff, not even for themselves you're buying the nice car, not because you wanted to, because man, you don't, you don't even want an extra bill, but your cousin got one, yeah dang it. And now your uncles and your aunts are discussing who's the most successful cousin.
Speaker 1:And you're not in the conversation anymore because you don't have the nice truck. And you're getting left behind. Pero tia I put Rines on my truck tia.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, I get it, I get it.
Speaker 1:And I think a concept that they speak about is how, especially in America, the big thing that's being sold is the American dream right, and what the American dream portrays is freedom right, like if you chase this American dream, you'll have more time and more freedom. But I think it was david ramsey who talked about the american dream. He was being interviewed for this and he said that it supposedly is freedom. But in pursuit of freedom, people tend to put themselves in financial jail. Yeah, because they want to buy the bigger house, the bigger car, and I think it was ryan that mentioned that that as his income increased, his lifestyle increased. So now to keep up with his lifestyle, he had to keep making more money. And now you're working like 60 hours a week and I have no time and really what's taking away from your happiness is all this other things that you're doing to have these stuff right, and what's in?
Speaker 2:No go ahead. Sorry, no go no you know, as you were talking of that, I remember like that they discuss credit card debt, because I think that's that's a key point in this conversation as well, right?
Speaker 2:because, as you have this lifestyle inflation, where your lifestyle is more and more expensive. You're like a couple years, if not decades, behind, right, because before it used to be that you, you worked hard, you made enough money, okay, and now you upgraded your car or you upgraded your clothing or whatever part of your life that you wanted to upgrade. Now banks and credit cards allow you up, make the upgrade way before you have the income. So you have, like, not only this pressure of like okay, I need to make this much, to make this, you know month, but you have like maybe 12 months ahead of expenses that you need to make up and you fall behind like, just like the way investing works, debt works that same way on reverse.
Speaker 2:So you're going to be constantly behind and that feeling is not going to feel good. No matter how much stuff you have, you could be in a mansion and if you're in debt and falling behind in payments, you're not going to feel what you think you're going to feel that sensation of well-being and happiness and contentment. You're not going to feel it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think this documentary makes you reflect on what your value system is right. What's what is what's bringing you happiness, and usually what they emphasize in the documentary is like a sense of community with your family, having a sense of control of your time Things I think we've spoken about a little bit in this podcast. What I find interesting is how, like this, isn't brand new information, right? And yet, now more than ever, credit card debt is through the ceiling. Right, I think you're saying the average American has $17,000 of credit card debt or something ridiculous or something like that. I saw that and I was like man, I'm glad that's not me.
Speaker 2:That's scary oh my gosh I mean that's yeah, I think that's, that's probably a low number. I mean that's probably like an average. That to me seems low. Some people really a lot like when you combine my card debt, you know student loan.
Speaker 1:I'm not even talking about home like home no, but I think they were just talking about credit card though right?
Speaker 2:I don't think.
Speaker 1:I don't think it included all of that, yeah because, you're right, it included house mortgage. Yeah, it's probably a lot.
Speaker 2:I just shared a video with you not too long ago of this guy looking at his phone. His account had negative $40,000.
Speaker 1:And and the comment said bro needs 40 000 to be broke.
Speaker 2:That is sadly yeah condition that a lot of people live in now the question is do you?
Speaker 1:how much responsibility is it on these people? Of course, I think the majority of the responsibility is on these people making these decisions.
Speaker 1:But how much is it just lack of financial information or teaching or education? How much do you think the weight is? Because I've seen some videos, man, I think there's this content creator that basically I think, talks to people, interviews them about basically their financial circumstance. I don't know what's his name is, but there was this one girl that I was impacted because the way she viewed money was crazy to me. She was saying that she had like crazy amount of credit card debt, like $30,000, something crazy, wow, and then and then, but she she was like positive, she's like no, but like I'm making my minimum. It's like $500. I paid that like this.
Speaker 1:I have no late payments, and that scared me. I'm like some people view things like that Like, oh, as long as I make that payment, I'm okay, and that shook me, but it made me feel pity because that seems like someone who doesn't have financial education. So what's your take on that? No, I mean, that seems like someone who doesn't have financial education, so what's your take on that?
Speaker 2:No, I mean, I think you're definitely right, Like even though we were laughing a couple seconds ago. It's not funny, you know, like some people do have.
Speaker 1:We're just laughing, you're like, but it's not funny.
Speaker 2:It is. I mean we could. I would go as far as calling them victims, but not really. I mean, if you are making the purchase, whether you know, have the knowledge or not, you should have enough knowledge to know that if you buy something, you have to pay it back. Whether it's now, whether you do it in payments or you do it over a long time, you're gonna pay it back and most people should have at least the common sense to know that banks are making some amount of money. That's why they that's why they make these credit cards available. They don't do it, just you know to help you.
Speaker 2:Fine, yeah yeah, they're doing it for themselves. And if you understand just those simple pieces of information, you probably don't need you know a finance degree to know, yeah, that you're in a dangerous position if you use credit cards to finance your lifestyle like credit cards should be used properly and if you learn how to do it and if you take the time to have that education, um, they can be an asset in your under your belt, like you can use them wisely. But if not, like if you use them, you know, without any caution, you could become victim to them and I mean, I don't know. I think that you're getting in, we're getting into, like a very deep topic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but drawing it back to minimalism, you know, I think if people understood this earlier rather than later, they would save so much money but also hardship, right, because at some point the things you have kind of have like give you this feeling of, well, I can't get rid of it now, right.
Speaker 2:Like if you bought an expensive fridge, if you like, bought all these things, or you have multiple of you know. Let's say, you have a lot of clothing and you know, like, very like expensive clothing, you probably don't want to get rid of it, right, even if you don't use it Because you're like, oh, but I spent so much on this. Yeah, right, even if you don't use it because you're like, oh, but I spent so much on this. Like, yeah, this cost is gonna keep you away from minimalism. And that's why I admire, I think, uh, ryan, because he probably didn't care. Like he said, I'm wasting a lot of money getting rid of this, but my peace of mind and just not being brought down by this is worth more. And yeah, I mean, I don't know if I would be able to do it like that, but it was admirable yeah, it comes down to like opportunity costs, right.
Speaker 1:I think he was like saying thinking maybe, like the time it takes me to make these decisions anyway is like, well, let me just do it now and maybe get closer to this goal that I want to get to. Um, so it comes down to reflecting on what. What is the end goal? Right? What do you want? Do you want to maintain this lifestyle that maybe on social media or what you say to others, says you're happy, but deep down, you're not.
Speaker 1:Well, it's time to potentially make a change, and they push, or they encourage the idea that having less less clutter around you like is more freeing and the question is like well, how do I know that works? Well? I think part of it is like you don't know until you know you gotta try it right, because I think you can't live through someone else when it comes to material possessions like you can't but I mean, if you think about it just conceptually, the freedom that it would give you to just stop competing with stuff, right?
Speaker 2:like yeah when you look at people buying new cars or doing all these things that you know nothing about, I mean maybe some of those people can afford them. It seems like that at some point joshua and ryan were able to afford all these things that they were buying. It still didn't contribute to happiness. So whether you can afford it or not has really no part of this. You know decision Like if?
Speaker 2:you want to have a more simple life and allocate your resources more intentionally. Like you know, something he mentioned that kind of like was impactful to me is if someone walked into my home, they wouldn't know that I'm a minimalist.
Speaker 2:It's not like my house is empty, it's not like you walk in and there's a couch and a stove and a fridge Like there's stuff, it's just it's not full of stuff. Like everything that's there. It's there for a reason, like I needed this or I really wanted this. It's there. It's there for a reason, like I needed this or I really wanted this. And I think if we kind of like learn from those lessons and are more intentional about the things we own, I think it would have a positive impact in our lives yeah, I think that's what they're trying to encourage, right, not just to sell everything.
Speaker 1:It's because, even um joshua, he brought back some like that, some one like a couple boxes from his mom's house that he had some valuable attachment to, but he didn't bring his whole house, her whole house yeah because it's her mom's right. So he basically encouraging like is this thing that I have one bringing me use, like I'm actually using it.
Speaker 1:Or two actually bring me some sort of value, like that brings me happiness owning this thing. I think that's the exercise they encourage, Like go through your things and see if this is bringing me value. There is a quote that I wanted your opinion on to see if I found it interesting and, yeah, I have my own opinion on it.
Speaker 1:The quote is a cluttered space equals a cluttered mind. Now, do you agree with this? Have you gone to, like, you know, my tia's house? Or like a primo's house? They just have stuff everywhere. Or like someone's car and there's have stuff everywhere. Or like someone's car and then just stuff everywhere do you? Think that translate to their mind or is it disconnected?
Speaker 2:this has nothing to do with I'm gonna say, even though it's opposite probably to what we're going over today. When it comes to desks specifically, we can make it more general about life, but for now, just desks. Okay, it depends, right, like every person's different. Some people work better in a way that you know they have sticky notes all over and you know pens, pencils available and a notepad, some books, you know pages of a newspaper that never read, and that's just the way they work, like that they. Everything they have there has a reason and they know why it's there. And that's the way they. They work like that they. Everything they have there has a reason and they know why it's there and that's the way they like to work.
Speaker 2:You know, I've heard I've heard that quote before and I've also heard the the counter quote of you know, a crowded space is a crowded mind, but an empty space is an empty mind. I don't know if you want an empty mind yeah so that's why I'm saying it.
Speaker 2:It varies, right for some people. It must be that way. Me personally, when I'm working, I like to have a clean setup, like I like to have, just if I'm using a laptop and an ipad, just those two things, and that's what I'm gonna be like. I need to have, like the rest clean before I can even start.
Speaker 2:That's me personally but I, I can also see someone being different and someone you know having all kinds of stuff in their desk and their work environment and that working for them. So I don't think it really applies as much to me personally. Like, what do you think?
Speaker 1:Well, my question is, before I answer, is did you get there Like at some point were you the opposite, or have you always been a fairly decluttered person?
Speaker 2:I think, due to my upbringing, I always, or maybe, or maybe not always, but like I think, at some point in high school I kind of maybe actually it wasn't even me, it was, it wasn't even like someone that taught this to me, but maybe I grew up listening to this idea of you know, simplify your life. You know, don't make your life complicated. And that pairs up perfectly with this, you know if you have a life of you don't want to accumulate stuff.
Speaker 2:It's gonna be a lot of work, it's gonna, you know, cause a lot of stress, it's gonna be problematic. Also, I saw a lot of people around me probably go the other route and I had the benefit of being able to draw lessons from them and seeing, like, okay, they're going this route. It doesn't seem like that's working, it doesn't seem like they're happier like, and that's one thing. You know, I don't want to jump top because I think we're discussing a very important one. But, you know, another one of the quotes I have is we can buy into the trap of trying to buy our way out of hard stuff. Yeah, and the way I translated that, or like the way I interpreted that, was you know, for example, something as hard as self-worth, like having a deep sense of self-worth, is not easy, especially now yeah, like people tell you what self-worth should be like people give you all these external influences.
Speaker 2:But self-worth by nature should be. You know what kind of brings you like the ability that you're worth. And if you bring it from stuff, if you buy like the fancy car, so people think, oh, this guy, he's successful, he's smart, but you don't feel like you're smart or intelligent or successful, it's not gonna work. Like you're trying to take a shortcut, you're trying to like skip the actual.
Speaker 2:You know work which is you know, having a relationship that's healthy about yourself and that can be said about a lot of other things right, like respect you know I don't know what you think, but I think that's what I've always trying to try to avoid, like I don't want to buy shortcuts like, for example, you know, something that relates to this is single use items. There's a lot of things you can buy at stores that have literally one use. Or, like you know, a waffle maker has one use waffles, but how often you make waffles like yeah is it?
Speaker 1:is it just make a pancake?
Speaker 2:Is it worth having the waffle maker If I make waffles once a year and I buy this thing for $30 and it can work for 10 years. Let's say, is it really worth it if I can just go buy the waffles? I'm not a big waffle eater, but there's a lot of things like that People buy for one single use.
Speaker 2:They crowd their space and they don't even use them that much. So, like I'm more, maybe even too too much where, like I don't buy this stuff if I don't have a really good reason to buy it. Like it needs to be a huge reason. Like you know, last two, couple years ago, we were fixing up our house where we live now, like painting and doing a couple other things and I found that I constantly needed a ladder. Like constantly, like every couple of months, I need a ladder, and I kept borrowing it, like until I finally decided, you know what, maybe I should buy a ladder I need it enough, like I need it and I use it so much that it's worth buying.
Speaker 2:And that's my take on this. I really am more careful about the buying because I know that getting rid of stuff is a lot harder. But even if you manage to do it, let's say I bought a ladder before I knew if I needed it or not and then I got rid of it or I got sold it I was going to sell it for a fraction of the cost.
Speaker 2:That's just what happens with things that depreciate, and I didn't want to make that mistake. So I don't know. I think we went on a tangent here, but that's my long answer to your question.
Speaker 1:No, and I think that that's a good exercise. Though let's say you really want something, let's say you really think you want and need that thing. That's a good exercise. You just said, like you went. You went a couple months without it like, okay, well, I'm gonna have to borrow, I have to borrow it, and then you realize you know what, I need it.
Speaker 1:Enough, right and I think the way marketing is nowadays they show it to you like twice and all of a sudden you think I, I need it and and and I will, you know, put myself. That's happened to me like I bought this stupid razor, bro, that I did not need for like a hundred dollars because because I thought that I needed to be clean. I have no idea, bro, the marketing wombo jum they did on my mind, but for me I take it as a $100 lesson. I regret that purchase, not because I think the quality is wrong. I'm not going to mention the company, but I'm not saying the quality was bad. I just realized I'm not doing designs on my face, like I'm just shaving, like why do I need this expensive razor? But I think the the the problem I fell in is that I I was they mess with my emotions and I was on this like feeling of like no, I do think I need it. Oh, it'll be super clean and the razors are cheaper.
Speaker 1:Like they paint it so well, like oh it's one expensive price, but then it becomes cheaper over time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they got me. You know, for everyone it's different, right Like, for example, for me. I happen that, I'm happen to. I was thinking about this last week and discussing with my wife because Prime Day just passed, passed right, like it was last monday and tuesday. I didn't buy a single item this year let's go.
Speaker 2:I'm proud of you, bro but here's why, though it wasn't even that I made the goal, oh, I'm not gonna buy anything I did browse, like I looked at stuff. I was like, oh, this would be nice, this would be cool. But it happened to be, and this kind of teaches the way I buy personally. Amazon has so many options for everything. Yeah, like if you look for a pair of shoes, you're going to find so many.
Speaker 2:If you look for, you know whatever like let's say you want to buy something to squeeze lemons. They're going to have different materials and different price ranges. I just find that entire process like so demanding on like my decision making ability that I end up giving up like there's just too many options like I can't choose, so I don't buy it. But now something interesting happens when I go to a store like trader joe's or costco, and these stores have a different approach, right, their approach is we only bring the best quality ingredients or you know high quality ingredients to the shelves.
Speaker 2:Like that, like if you go to trader joe's and you're looking for, you know tomato sauce, they're gonna have a lot less options than your local grocery store. They're gonna select every and, as a matter of fact, they might only have one or two of what you're looking for. Because if you're looking for, you know, red sauce with basil, they might only have one, whereas if you go to another store, there's like three different brands yeah, four different variations, you know, some might be chunky, and then you end up exhausted.
Speaker 2:I mean me personally where someone else that might. That might be what works for them. Like they, they just love the options and they buy one of each and they try them all. I end up trying to maximize and make the optimal decision that I just can't make a decision at all, yeah, but at costco and trader joe's look my weakness because they have less options so they get rid of their fatigue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that teaches me something about the way I buy, and if you know the way you buy, you can take precautions. For example, like I've heard of this tip before, if you are someone that shops a lot on Amazon, instead of buying instantly, put things in the cart and come back a couple of days after. That might work for someone. Right, like in the heat of the moment, you're adding stuff and you're, oh yeah, this would be cool, this would be nice. But you come back a couple days after, like when you're not hungry or you're in a better mood, and you'll be like I don't actually need that, like I'm not gonna buy it. So I mean, everyone can have their little tricks on how to consume less and how to buy less stuff. Because I mean, I think it was discussed in the beginning of this episode what these companies like Apple and Amazon and all these advertisement companies have done is removed the friction between what you want and buying there's no friction, you can literally go on.
Speaker 2:Amazon and click and you don't have to get your card out and put the number.
Speaker 1:You don't even have to.
Speaker 2:It's just one click buy.
Speaker 1:I think that's what they call it one click buy. We can just like. I want that tomorrow. Now you know it's crazy the power we have now in regards to just buying stuff.
Speaker 2:It's it's too much, it's almost unnatural, right like if you go to whole foods. I think I mean, amazon owns whole foods, but they can scan your palm. What you scan, yeah, like you scan, like they read your fingerprints, I think what? And they're like okay, you, it's linked to your card so you can walk out, like you just scan the things, put your palm palm and you're done.
Speaker 1:It's crazy, dang talk about big data, bro.
Speaker 2:Talk about the things they have on you bro, and still I don't think that's frictionless enough, like they're trying to make it so you can walk into a store, grab the items and walk out, just walk out. Yeah, they would scan I don't know your face or scan in anything you grab.
Speaker 1:It's automatically charged to your account yeah, well, talking about this frictionless experience and I know we're going a little sidetracked here with the minimalist documentary, but it's kind of on it I heard. I mean, I haven't personally experienced it. Many of those who've gone to Disney World can speak about it.
Speaker 1:But I heard, like in Disney World they give you a band that's attached to your credit card, yeah, and basically they're trying to make it frictionless. So let's say you go to the store, you want this, all you, just beep, and you walk out Like it's. It's like literally zero friction. You want an ice cream cone, just beep. And then at the end of the day you have like a $10,000 credit card debt, you know because you bought a bunch of little toys and trinkets.
Speaker 1:It is fascinating. I think the key thing that this is this documentary highlights is to you know, stop and reflect. Is this thing bringing me value, right? Is it a yes, it's a no, and there's no like middle ground. I think that's what they're encouraging well, well, sometimes like. Well, no, that's a no, like it's yes or no, it's like. And that's the hard conversation you have to have to make it yeah, yeah, it's, it's. It was a really good documentary you know.
Speaker 2:but for everyone out there, let's say you are struggling with this, let's say you are stuck in this cycle where you do find yourself like you're buying stuff to fill a void right, don't worry, it's not like you have to make this huge change. So all of a sudden, in fact, they discuss a couple of strategies that I think are very practical. Right, like you know, they could, if you make it a challenge to yourself, like, get rid of one thing per day. Like you go, go around, look at a cabinet, be like, oh, I don't use this, I'm going to throw it away, I'm going to donate it, I do it. And if you do that, you know, for a month, or maybe even you know, day one you get rid of one thing, day two you get rid of two things. You end up, you know, getting rid of quite a bit of stuff and you can do that to declutter.
Speaker 2:Also, what they mentioned, and I think this is a good concept, not just for minimalism or materialism or, you know, avoiding materialistic lifestyle, but for anything, whatever it is. They're trying to do it and he gave a really good quote and I really liked it for anything, not just minimalism. He says the more action you take, the more you want to take action. So basically, just start right, like if you don't know where you want to end up, you know like you, okay, I have too much stuff Like this is becoming a problem. Either stop buying, that would be a good first step, right.
Speaker 2:Like if you're buying things faster than you're getting rid of them.
Speaker 1:You're never going to get there so stop that pursuit and start taking action.
Speaker 2:It could be small, it can be big, but the more you do it, the more you're going to want to do it right, like it can be for anything. You know, if you take that first step, you're going to want to take that second step.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they illustrate like a snowball effect, Like almost that feeling of letting go becomes freeing and you become addicted to. This is so good and so nice. I do think that I want to get there. I think there's been moments in my life where, especially in regards to clothes, I think that I've gotten. I was like the extreme of like just keeping everything I had, Like.
Speaker 1:I had like shirts from like seventh grade. You know I didn't even fit me right that somehow I thought there was a memory attached to them. Do you remember like in middle school or elementary school, at the end of the year they would sign your shirt right With Sharpies. You'd go with the white shirt and they'll you know you had like Johnny say like have a good summer. You know I had like six shirts like that for a long time and I finally I threw them out. I mean, a good recipe, a way to push you is like.
Speaker 2:I feel like for me was moving, when I had to move and just like true yeah everything in a car is like well, that's, I have to, I have to let this go like actually yeah, because I mean, ryan did the exercise but it was fictitious, he didn't actually move, yeah, but you do it for real, like you actually, every couple of years you're prone to just pack up and leave yeah, I have to talk to my therapist about that actually so you are kind of like you didn't go to college but years after you were so successful that you got oh, like you're graduate, like what do they call it?
Speaker 1:art honorary. Oh yeah, yeah, that's what you are from minimalism that's hilarious. Yeah, no, for sure. Like moving for me has helped me.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, you know what's funny talking about talking about you and I didn't want to put you out there, but you did it yourself when I first met joel like one of the times that that I first went to his room.
Speaker 2:I thought it was so cool, like it was a little dungeon, very dark. You know he liked to set the mood of very like I don't know, like Batman kind of vibes and he had more ties and shirts than I had like had you know, like original, like original thoughts, like it was a huge amount, like he had a lot of stuff like you, just loved having like clothing, like clothing was your thing, like you really like having ties, like do you end up getting rid of a lot of those ties because you, yeah, I gave?
Speaker 1:them away, yeah, so when I moved from in a room for arizona, new york, I carried them in my back of my Honda and anytime anyone wanted some, I just like gave them away, like, hey, take whatever you want. Yeah, yeah it's. I do think that a large part of it was just memories, bro. Like I think I was holding on to memories. Like, for example, I remember in my room specifically, I would hang up like little gifts, right, if a little girl, a little daughter of a friend of mine drew me a picture, I would keep it because I thought that was like oh, so valuable, like there's this intrinsic value to what she's giving me, but you can only hold on to so much until it becomes an anchor.
Speaker 1:It's just like a bunch of stuff and, being in photography too, like I'd print a bunch of pictures. I just had a box I had like drawers, full of pictures and they're just there you know, yeah. I will say I've gotten better. I've gotten better, that's good.
Speaker 2:I mean, what's good about these lessons is that, like you can think about this whenever you give a gift Like I would not want to give a gift that becomes a burden. Let's say, I give you a huge rock and you're like Joy here, happy anniversary. I'm just a douche, I'm not going to say this, but some people are like, just give me cash, I'm down. I'm not at that level. Yet I feel like there's some sentimental gifts you can give. But, just be careful, especially with clothing.
Speaker 2:If you give an article of clothing unless the other person has expressed that they actually like this. It could become a contributing factor into this problem.
Speaker 2:Having things that you don't actually like and use, but someone gave it to you and you don't want to get rid of it. You have to be kind of cold in a way of like you know what? This doesn't serve me anymore. Like I kept it for a couple years because, you know, my friend gave it to me, but now just in the closet, like maybe the best way to you know, you know, cherish it or like demonstrate gratefulness to my friend, just make sure that it gets used. Like make sure that someone, like maybe my brother, would use it.
Speaker 2:Oh, give it to my brother, like something like that and maybe there's things you can do and not do you know what you can get away with or not get away with, or what you feel like comfortable with doing, but those are just some things that you can consider if you want to live a less crowded life yeah, no, I, I completely agree.
Speaker 1:I think that that's a good, a good piece of advice in regards to gift giving, I mean and in that, with that mentality I think I noticed it more with my family Like there is this when you travel somewhere, they'll come back with a bunch of trinkets because or else people don't think that you love them. Right, like you have to. I bought you, I bought everyone a magnet from puerto vallarta and I have to bring it back and give it to you, or else you think I don't care about you.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, I could say though, like when it comes to traveling, like some things are worth having. I don't know if you still have this or not, but like remember, we went to san francisco, we went to the apple headquarters oh yeah and they told us like this is the only place where we sell the apple t-shirt with the apple like I mean, I still have that like it doesn't fit me anymore it honestly, it doesn't I mean it fits you just a little tight, a little snug, a little snug.
Speaker 1:So I don't have that shirt just because I ruined it. I played with soccer and I destroyed it like my sweat, and I just destroyed that shirt.
Speaker 2:If I try it on one more time, I might destroy it too.
Speaker 1:I think there's. Again, I agree that there's balance. For example, I collect pins and you know this, I collect pins when I go to a new place. There's like this value that I like. I like buying those pins, but like, for example, like again, like, for example, uh hua, he went to alaska and he bought me a pin. Oh, that was awesome, it was a cool. But he knew that I collected pins, so he brought me a pin. Right, that's a valuable little gift. Now, if you just give everyone a pin, they're like that they're not gonna value, they're like they don't have any value value. It becomes this weight of like well, I have to keep it, and it ends up in a drawer for like years and then, and then you end up dropping it and then you just vacuum it up and then you throw it away. Like like, that's the life of that thing one, it's waste of money, right, that's like one thing but, two like you could have.
Speaker 1:I like, I think I like the gift when traveling of like either snacks, you know, or chocolates of that place. I think that's a great gift, because because you can only get it there, right. But like everyone, but they're gonna consume it immediately potentially.
Speaker 2:You gave the PG answer to that because, honestly, what he wanted is actually wine like a foil wine. Bring me some wine, he called it yeah I want some vinito.
Speaker 1:No, but yeah, again, like there's other ways to do it. But I do think that this is a great documentary, that if anyone hasn't seen it yet, it's a short but sweet and, you know, I would say, powerful. Now, just to end it here with this point, carlos, do you think yes or no? Is minimalism radical?
Speaker 2:I think you could get that way, like you could. If you overdo it, you can in there but if you do it with balance instead of being radical, it can be like one of the most moderate things you do like is yeah, I mean it's radical, just keep trying to fill boys with stuff like to me that's more like more extreme, like.
Speaker 2:To me that's more extreme and it seems more natural, though, like people do that without thinking and I think that's where we do become kind of victims to the system like Like these corporations that analyze human behavior. It's sad to say that they're so much smarter than us, but they do have unlimited resources. And they know exactly you know when to get to you at the right time. Like if you send me an ad for cheap ice cream at Friday at 530 or 630, like you're gonna get me. You know, like they know that stuff they're gonna get me.
Speaker 1:They know, they know what's up.
Speaker 2:That's funny, it's kind of an unfair battle. But yeah, I think one of my concluding thoughts on this episode is that, like you can go through cycles. You know, for example, like me and my wife, a couple years I think it was like two years ago we went through this crazy you know, weekend, for example, like me and my wife, a couple years I think it was like two years ago we went through this crazy, you know, weekend where we just, I think I saw this episode for the first time, like I saw this documentary for the first time and I got rid of I'm not going to lie, hoyle, I don't have a lot of clothes I got rid of 50% of my clothes at that time. No, you didn't Around clothes at that time. No, you didn't Around 50%.
Speaker 1:So like 62 navy shirts were just down the drain.
Speaker 2:Now being honest, a lot of them didn't fit me anymore, so like it was an easy choice. It wasn't like oh. I don't like it anymore. It was like it doesn't fit me. I don't know why I'm holding on to this.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Since then I've maybe accumulated a little more things, like through gifts and things that I bought I don't buy a lot of clothing, but like here and there, you know over two years and now I'm probably like in that stage where I need to like refocus and do it again. And that might be you right Like if you watch this episode.
Speaker 2:Or you watch, you go on Netflix and you watch the actual episode and you're like you know what this would benefit me. I think this would make my improve my life. And you, you're like you know what this would benefit me, I think this would make my improve my life. And you do it and you find yourself that over the next two years, okay, maybe I'm accumulating stuff again, then re-watch it or maybe like re-re-visit that thought that made you get rid of stuff and do it again. Like you don't have to be always in this like constant soldier mode of I need to focus, I'm not gonna buy anything I'm gonna get rid of stuff.
Speaker 2:I don't think that's reasonable either. I think if you do it moderately, I think it can contribute to your happiness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, I think that once in a while, just going through your stuff to do a little reset, I think you know what I've fallen into the bad habit in right now is that we're not wealthy out here. But what I go do is like I, when we go to good, like goodwills, like secondhand stores, like like almost like, my conscience goes out the window. It's like it's like it's, it's secondhand, it's cheap, like I'm reusing something. So I buy like three shirts and a sweater and, oh, I only spent 40. That's like a pair of jeans. You know, like I almost justify buying a lot of stuff. You know, yeah, because you're buying it at a low price. But but again, I'm accumulating stuff that I'm going to use once or twice. Yeah, it's gonna, you know, be in my way, or I have to carry it around wherever at my next time I move. Again, you know I gotta carry it around I mean, I agree it around wherever at my next time I move again.
Speaker 1:You know I gotta carry it around I mean, I agree with you.
Speaker 2:I think I've been a victim of the deal as well, like when I see a good deal, even if I don't need it, I end up buying it. And I think if you actually watch this episode, you start thinking just beyond the monetary weight of a purchase, right, because maybe the weight is not that much, maybe you can afford it, maybe you're like that Okay. Good for you. Look for things that bring you happiness in life beyond that Like, beyond, you know more stuff.
Speaker 2:Like I said, one of my favorite quotes of the entire episode is that people fall in this mistake of buying stuff instead of doing hard stuff like, let me. Let me read the quote again. It says we can buy into the trap of trying to buy our way out of hard stuff. So, like, valuing yourself, developing, developing like a style of like, oh, that's hoel's personality or harold's personality.
Speaker 2:That's a lot harder than just going out and okay, I'm a skater boy, now I'm gonna buy all the gear that a skater boy buys and skater boy yeah I think do it the hard way, like don't take the shortcut like if you want to be a cook, don't go, buy all the gadgets to be a cook, just start cooking.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then, as you need stuff.
Speaker 1:Use the tools you have. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Just use what you have, don't take the shortcut, and you're going to find that you're a lot happier than if you just buy everything that comes across your you know for you Amazon page. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a great documentary, I think. One last quote I know we're making it as long as we had to, but a quote that we didn't talk about. It was mentioned. It said love people, use things. The opposite never works, and I thought that was really powerful. I thought that was just a powerful point to be mindful of what we're purchasing and using and being careful what we do.
Speaker 2:When we flip it, flip the opposite yeah, anyway, that is a huge at this point. Our podcast is longer than the actual netflix you can pick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, we went off tangent a little bit, sharing a couple life stories and whatnot, but yeah, so again, like, we're not sponsoring to radicalize yourself, become a minimalist, but there is balance, right, and there's a lot of, uh, wisdom. I I think honestly, I think minimalism needs a rebranding. I think, yeah, I think living simply is better, right, like being a simple yeah, simplifying.
Speaker 1:I think, minimalism makes it sound extreme, like I got to live with one fork, one spoon, you know, one cup, and maybe people do do that and it brings them happiness. But that might not be balanced.
Speaker 2:Don't do anything crazy. Like when we were recording before we record this podcast, I was telling Juan, maybe when we were recording before we record this podcast, I was telling quite maybe we should record it shirtless you know, just to be completely minimalist he didn't like the idea, so we ended up putting our shirts back on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're like yeah, carlos, no, no, no, I'm maximal oh, that's another thing there's like maximalists now, like there's people who do the opposite, like they just have well-organized stuff. You know that would be a fun exercise actually Read a book about maximalism and seeing like the connection there. It would be interesting, it would be interesting and to anyone watching this.
Speaker 2:If you want to recommend you know a book or document, documentary you know, let us know, put it in the comments. It'd be good to like see what you guys are interested in. I think by now episode six, seven, I'll say at the seven, I think.
Speaker 1:I think it's seven.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you kind of know what we like, kind of like what we gravitate towards, but if you have anything that you think that we should, you know do it in Appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Oh, one last thing. I think I wanted to have your opinion on it. Maybe next week we can do the Paradox of Choice, because I feel like we kind of dabbled in it today. Okay, the Paradox of Choice, it's a good book. I've only briefly started it. I haven't finished it. It's one of those books I bought because it was recommended and I didn't touch. Let's do it, yeah.
Speaker 2:What do you think? Paradox of choice? We're going to do that one next.
Speaker 1:Okay, sounds good. Thanks for tuning in to Re-Enrolled Until next time, and that wraps up our discussion for this episode. We hope you enjoyed diving into this topic as much as we did.
Speaker 2:If you found value in our conversation, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review.
Speaker 1:And share this episode with your friends and anyone else who loves to learn. We've got more exciting topics coming up, so stay tuned. Thanks for joining us on Re-Enrolled. Until next time, keep learning and stay curious.
