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Re-Enrolled
#2 Steal Like An Artist: Embracing Inspiration and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
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Can creativity be borrowed? Explore with us as we unravel the wisdom of Austin Kleon's book, "Steal Like an Artist." We promise you'll learn how to break out of creative ruts and embrace the transformative idea that "nothing is original." Discover how borrowing inspiration can lead to uniquely personal creations and the importance of continuous practice to nourish your creativity. We share personal stories about overcoming the fear of not being creative and the liberating power of embracing this philosophy.
Navigate the tricky waters of giving and receiving advice with us. Ever felt advice reflects more about the giver than the recipient? We explore this notion and discuss how to tailor advice to individual contexts and circumstances. The guiding principle, "write the book you want to read," serves as a beacon for creating genuine and authentic content. Our discussion highlights the value of mindful consumption and how curating your surroundings with meaningful inspiration can significantly influence your creative growth.
Tackle imposter syndrome, start small, and embrace discomfort with our practical tips and personal anecdotes. Hear about the benefits of maintaining a swipe file for inspiration and how starting with minimal resources can spark immense creativity. We emphasize the importance of sharing your creative work despite vulnerabilities and the courage it takes to put yourself out there. With insights from Theodore Roosevelt's powerful words, we wrap up by celebrating the effort and passion that make creative endeavors truly worthwhile.
I feel like an artist. By Austin Kleon. That's what we're going to talk about today. I chose this book. It's something that I personally. I watched a YouTube video or something a while back and I recommended this book. If you ever get stuck in a creative funk, this can be a great book to just kind of get you out of that funk. Um, it's a short read. I compared it. I told you it's like eating chips. You know it's not like crazy complex, it's. You know, it's just, it's just good, it's just good to chew on. It's good, good flavor. That's how I think this book is. It's like it's short but has like some powerful statements, some powerful quotes. What was your first opinion or what did you think when you first saw the book that I chose?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think with any good book, what you want is that it makes you think right. And this book you've been recommending it for a while. Never got the chance to buy it and get it until now. But I think you're right. It definitely speaks to someone kind of like what we're doing starting a creative project and anyone else that's in that same process of wanting to create something cool and enjoy that process. Reading this book is going to kind of reframe their mind and maybe get them thinking about things that they haven't thought of, and also maybe things that they did think of, but see them a little differently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it has so much value for such a short read. So I think this is the type of book that I think I could easily give to people that again that my, I can see potential of creativity but they just don't do anything for whatever reason. And I think this is a great book to give to like okay, I just read this, maybe this can get you started into your creative process potentially, or how you said it, like reassess, maybe I'm doing something wrong here, I'm overthinking such a thing, and I first gave it to you. I thought I was giving it to you because you always say that you're not creative, but I don't agree with that. So, like, how did you consume this book personally?
Speaker 2:You know, and that's kind of like, when I was reading this book, it made me think of all those conversations we used to have, even before we started this podcast, of me feeling like I'm not a creative person, like I can analyze and maybe try to understand systems that are already in place, but I'm not that guy that can go out there and create something new. But I think everyone is right. Like when you read this book and you start to think about creative projects differently, you start to realize that there's creativity in all of us and creativity doesn't have to be something. When we think of original, everyone expects to have this original, grand idea that's never been spoken before, never been said before, never been imagined before.
Speaker 2:But the reality is that it's probably not, that it's probably not the case, like there's nothing new under the sun and and that's a thing that's a bible quote inside of the book uh, but it's. It is true. All the problems we have, we share and all the ideas we have at some point or another, maybe someone else had them. It's true, like within the last years there's been social media that maybe hasn't happened before in life, but I'm sure 10,000 years ago or, you know, maybe not 10,000, but a thousand or 2000 years ago, people were thinking of ways to connect with people, and that was a form of social media. So in itself the original idea wasn't new, but the way they went about it maybe was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and on that point, I think that's one of the quotes that maybe we can start talking about. The quote is nothing is original, steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. So how did you interpret that nothing is original Like? Was that a relief Like? So how did you interpret it? And interpret that nothing is original Like? Was that a relief Like? How did you feel?
Speaker 2:I think that relieves pressure from anyone that's trying to create something. Because if you try to wait for that moment, I mean I don't know how you feel about this. You've been in a creative journey for a long time. You know, if you try to take that perfect shot in photography that no one's ever taken before, you're probably gonna not take a lot of pictures and there's probably more, greater benefit in just taking more, editing more, getting better at those things.
Speaker 2:The same thing with originality and stealing. Right, stealing gets a bad rap or a bad rep. I don't know what's the correct word, um, but the title of the books refers more to like borrowing or maybe being inspired by right. You're not gonna go and get someone's drawing and be like that's mine now. I'm gonna go hang it and say that I drew it, but that's not the kind of stealing that we're promoting. It's more like looking at that piece of art, saying, oh, I like the way they did that, I like the way they they painted the sky, the way they reflected this landscape or whatever it is that they're doing, whether it's a drawing or music or podcasting and then trying to imitate that in your own little way. If you do that for multiple people. By the end of it, you're going to end up with something, maybe original, that is not original because you took it from all these people yeah, and that's how I feel too.
Speaker 1:I think that, like my personal journey of creativity, you know, I feel like I've been applying these things, not knowingly, like I I've always, like looked up to, like you know, these great photographers or youtubers and, um, I was like, how do they get that shot or how do they edit it that way? And I try to copy them right, like um, but the thing is like, when you, when I was trying to do this, it pushed me to maybe see the world through their eyes a little bit, but then see the things, well, okay, that's how they see it. I see a little bit, but then see the things, well, okay, that's how they see it. I see it a little bit differently, but now you are in the position to, you know, create or like in my case, I do photography to, to shoot it, and I think that for a long time, like I like the photographer I looked up to the most when I was a kid or I think he's like the biggest YouTube photographer that I know of at least there's probably bigger ones, but it's Peter McKinnon For a long time, like his editing style I really liked.
Speaker 1:He shot a lot of landscapes and he did like a wide variety of images, but the way he edited was something I always wanted to strive to get to and I feel like I imitated a lot of his work, at least his editing style. Maybe not his photos, because he's in, he's based in canada, so you know I'm from arizona, like completely different landscapes, but but I really try to imitate him and it pushed me to learn like, learn forcefully. If I felt like, if I sat down and said like well, the way I view, you know, the world isn't original, or I can't find that originality, then maybe I will have never taken a picture because no, there's, you know, cameras existed for so long.
Speaker 2:Like the odds of you shooting something that's not been shot before is hard, um, but I think there's a beauty in that imitation and I've grown a lot in it yeah, I think I think so as well, and anyone that's trying to embark in that journey, like we mentioned, you know, the fact that there's nothing original shouldn't be a sad realization, but actually a happy one. It should make you think, oh, I can bring something in, even if it's not completely original, that no one has ever seen or thought of those this before.
Speaker 1:It could still be something worth sharing or something worth, you know, putting out there yeah, I think that that, like you're saying, this frees one to just create, like, stop focusing so much on get the perfect thing. It's okay to be influenced by everybody, you know. That's how music is, that's how art is like yeah, it's just doing it, you know. And just to differentiate you already highlighted it, but we're we're not saying, oh, steal from someone else and say it's yours, no more. So being influenced by others it's okay, you know. Nothing's wrong with that yeah.
Speaker 2:So now that we've established this, that it's okay to borrow in your creative pursuits, that it's okay to get ideas from multiple sources, multiple people, multiple fields, you know, let's dive into some of the things that we can do once we we establish that that's okay and what some of the things that we have to be careful for as well, because this book includes good advice but also things to watch out for, and one of the things that I took as kind of a thing to watch out for or something to be aware of in your journey is that all advice is autobiographical. Autobiographical and he mentioned the author mentioned it's one of my theories that when people give you advice, they're really just talking to themselves in the past, and that makes you think about a lot of the advice you've received in your life, but also the advice you give. Like. Do you happen to agree with his statement, with his one of his theories? What do you think?
Speaker 1:I think so. I think in most cases. Yes, I do think that sometimes I get bad advice from people that have never done. Never done anything like. It's almost like the advice they wish they took, but they never actually applied. So it's also hard to take advice from someone who has it. It's like someone trying to give you know, guitar advice, but they don't play the guitar. It's like well, how can I take your advice, bro? You don't do the thing you're giving advice on. But I do think, in a general sense, a lot of people, yeah, when they give advice, it's more applied to themselves and you're just in the room talking to themselves or something like that. Do you feel like that's how you give advice?
Speaker 2:Well, I think when I was meditating on this chapter, like you mentioned, it's kind of like chips very healthy chips but you can kind of consume one chapter in a couple of minutes and really start thinking about it and maybe go on an hour just meditating on the information in one. But when I thought of this one, I think I definitely kind of broke it down like you did. Most advice does fall into this, maybe some good advice even falls into this, but great advice actually does take into consideration the recipient a little bit more. If you are giving good advice or great advice to someone that you know and you happen to know their background and what they're going through, you might be able to admit and kind of understand that if you just talk to yourself from the past, it'd be different, because his circumstances are a little bit different than yours.
Speaker 2:And that's kind of made made me think about the way I give advice also, the way you know I want to pursue this podcast or anything else that we do, like this podcast is tailored towards someone like me, someone that wants to read more, someone that enjoys reading, wants to learn more but at the same time, like wants to highlight and kind of what makes you think? Because you can go on YouTube and find a summary. You can probably find a lot of summaries about every book out there. But you know the way we're doing it is we're trying to get the different main topics and discussing those more deeply and kind of where they take us in life in general, because right now we're talking about advice, not just creative things, but in other areas of life, and some of the other topics we're going to discuss it will be something similar.
Speaker 1:You know we're just going to branch out and think of, you know that, what it brings to our mind and what we could use in our life and the hope really is with like anything, anything creative, um, it's like a gift to the world, like you're doing it, this is how, like in this, and let's use this as an example, this podcast as an example, like the way we're we're making this. It's for our growth and our benefit, with the hope that just one person relates to us. You know, like we can't say, we can't give. I think this is why, um, I steer away from taking on, like I do research on YouTube and stuff, and I think it's a great asset. But you can't take advice just like black and white that you see on anything really, especially on the internet, because that advice is so general, like you can't. Just our circumstances are so unique that you can pick and choose from different people to apply it to yourself, and I think that with what we're doing here, we're just hoping that someone relates a little bit to our experiences and maybe understands a bit more of what we're learning through this journey.
Speaker 1:But I do think that it's valuable to be careful how you give advice too, especially in a social media setting, because we don't know everyone's circumstances. But there is a lot of value in a general advice. I have a quote that I valued and see what you think. I mean, you have it written down as well and the quote is write the book you want to read and he states this in a. This quote is in a very general sense, because he's using a book as an illustration. In a very general sense, because he's using a book as an illustration, but almost like create the thing you want to see, whether it be art, music, whatever. How can this advice be applied in other forms, you think, and maybe to yourself too, personally?
Speaker 2:How do you take this quote? Well, I think when you're creating something, it's kind of a vulnerable situation, right? You don't know if people are going to connect to it. You know people are going to like it, and if you find yourself creating something, hoping or dreaming or envisioning that this customer or listener, or whatever it is as your end user, is going to going to enjoy it, but you don't actually enjoy it, you run the risk of creating something that actually no one likes, right? Because you yourself don't like it and maybe they don't like it either.
Speaker 2:Maybe your attempt of connecting to someone just doesn't pan out and you end up with a product whether it's a business offer, a blog, a podcast that really no one really resonates with. Whereas if you follow that advice of creating something that you want to read, that you want to listen to, that you would be able to use in your life, then you're guaranteeing that at least one person which happens to be a very important person in your life, which is yourself enjoys it. Right, and if you create something you enjoy, you can continue doing it, and if you can continue doing it, you can continue getting better, and if you continue getting better, maybe someone will end up listening or liking what you're creating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's the key, right? I think that's the key because if you're doing it for something else, the odds are you're not going to keep up with it because it's going to get boring. Too much work. And I can think of like many I mean, we've had many projects between us that we've tried that maybe we're thinking of, like the financials, like we're thinking, oh, like, if this blows up, this can you know? But it's almost a wrong.
Speaker 1:It's like a corrupted idea. It's like you're already doing it with an end goal in mind, or a financial end goal in mind, where the idea itself is already corrupted. You're not going to enjoy it. You're going to be so focused on well, if you're not making money fast or whatever the case is, you're not going to keep doing it because it's hard work or whatever. You're not enjoying it. So I think this I'm happy that we've, from all our different projects we've talked about together, we've gotten to this one, because I did this was this is a project that we do enjoy and we've done it. And I think this is where the original, the original idea started, was that we used to do we do this without the setting right, like we were talking, call on the phone and talk about books and stuff, so it's like, why not record it? And that's that's how we got here.
Speaker 2:I think that's the value of enjoying it yeah, and I think in the book it mentions how we are, some of our influences, and it quotes a german writer can't pronounce his name gothi gothi, he. We are shaped in fashion by what we love, and I think what you're talking about kind of like perfectly applies to that, because, you know, we love to learn, we love to read different interesting things, or maybe even something that we kind of have a feeling we cannot put it into words, but we had this feeling about life or whatever it is that we're talking about. But then we read a quote and we're like he got it. He had that same feeling, but he was able to put it into words and he was able to articulate it in a way that illustrates the point to someone else that maybe hasn't felt that feeling. And that's kind of.
Speaker 2:You know why we did this podcast. You know we want to be able to share those lessons that we find in different books that kind of apply to life, that are beyond just the narrative, that are beyond, maybe, just watching the movie. If you watch the movie, the book, you might get a pretty good idea of what happened there, the main events, but if you, you know, dive deep into some of these books and kind of analyze, maybe, what the author intended or, more importantly, how it applies to you, then that that's going to be something that's a bit more useful in your life and that's a bit more, you know, important yeah, and it's it's he.
Speaker 1:he uses the a lot of garbage in garbage out throughout the, the book of, and it's like some advices his mom gave him of of, like, what you consume and what you're taking is what you're going to put out.
Speaker 1:And I think that our goal is that now more than ever in in society, we have so much access to information and videos and books, right like we're in a generation where we should be the smartest ever, but I feel like it's we have so much it's almost overwhelming where you all you're doing is consuming but not processing. You're just taking, taking, taking, but nothing's being processed, so you don't really grow, you're just taking, taking, taking, but nothing's being processed, so you don't really grow, you're just taking stuff in. And I think this part of this you know, our project here is trying to slow us down a little bit, to just consume it and then and see why did you enjoy this, what did you learn from it? And I think this book, um see like an artist, is trying to motivate people to slow down a little bit and just enjoy the creative process and and be able to be vulnerable to that creative process without worrying about, you know, the other extra factors that come in to when creating yeah, and I think you know still discussing that same chapter.
Speaker 2:Uh, the garbage in, garbage out. I think the author gives us a very good recipe for success doing this right, because he says the hoarders collect indiscriminately.
Speaker 2:So if you're always consuming stuff. You're always maybe seeing art artists online. You have access to a lot of artists. You know TikTok, instagram there's a lot of people trying different things to get your attention. But if it doesn't really apply to what you're trying to do, maybe it's time to like, sort it as trash. You know this is not something that gets me closer to what I want, and artists collect collectively.
Speaker 2:So maybe that involves, you know, going through your TikTok and unfollowing anyone that doesn't relate to what you want to pursue or what you want to achieve, and keeping only those people that actually are doing stuff that maybe kind of speaks to you or maybe that you find, you know, like this could get me closer to what I want. And you know, pursuing that and kind of sorting things out in a see, seeing your head kind of like storage, head like storage that's the idea of garbage in, garbage out. We have no problem seeing garbage as something you have to get rid of in real life most of us at least. But with thoughts maybe we're not as selective. We think ideas and books, quotes we don't think those things matter as much, but they do. You know, they do hold up space in your mind and if you are filling it with things that you might consider trashed, then maybe it's better to start sorting it and getting those things out.
Speaker 1:And the question comes down to why. Why would I do that? Right, like, why would I be more mindful of what's what I'm consuming? And ultimately, it's your own goals. But if you feel stuck and you're wondering why am I so stuck? This might be the author gives this as a potential solution. Right, like, maybe it's what you're consuming, what are you surrounding yourself by? It's almost like again, again, I'm gonna butcher this and you may you know this quote better like isn't there? Like a? A quote, something like a? Like your five closest friends like salary, like something averages, something, something, something.
Speaker 2:I think the book even mentions that as well, but it mentions it more in a creative side, but I think it's a common quote. People say that you you earn an average of your five closest friends and yes, whether it's true or not, I don't know? Yeah, maybe we'll discuss that more yeah, exactly, eventually yeah we'll get to that idea a bit more. You know, oh, what was that? Go ahead? I was gonna say, I was just, I we'll get to that idea a bit more.
Speaker 1:You know I was just trying to.
Speaker 1:Oh, what was that? Go ahead, I was going to say I was trying to get to with that concept of like, what are your influences If you're and you kind of highlighted it a little bit If we're being over-influenced, like it's just too much, you're not like you're being overwhelmed and it's pulling you back a little bit. At least that's how I took it, and if I choose who I want to be inspired by, whether it's music or books, that will either push me or become an anchor to my growth. So it's very valuable how we consume things, and I think this book really invites you to question yourself in how you're consuming content yeah, actually I think there's a.
Speaker 2:There's a chapter in this book in a later part that I do want to discuss. It talks about you know, the rooms that you're in and the talent that you're surrounded with. But, right, I did want to take the time to maybe kind of go in a little bit more of an order and discuss a quote that really spoke to me. And it spoke to me for maybe the bad reason, but it spoke to me because maybe I felt like I was making these mistakes in the past. But then I read this and I'm like, oh, maybe it wasn't a mistake and the author invites us to collect books even if you don't plan on reading them right away. And it says the the story or the quote by filmmaker john waters. He said nothing is more important than an unread library.
Speaker 2:I always thought that was a bad habit, you know, collecting things that you don't have the time or the ability to read right away. I always thought, maybe you know it's only buy the things that you're ready to consume to avoid being a hoarder. But if you're an artist and you're doing this selectively, if you're buying maybe the books that relate to the skills you want to learn or maybe the practice that you want to get better at, then maybe it's not a bad habit, you know, if this guy, a filmmaker, does the same, you know, maybe it's something that we are welcoming in our life or we want to imitate. What is your take on that? Do you, do you? Is this a common practice with you as well, or not, really?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, you know, I have the same trouble too that I I I listened to an interview, a TED talk of someone I respect, or what they're speaking of, and they just mentioned like, oh, this book influenced me and I look it up on Amazon and I'm like I look at the reviews and I'm like I want to read it. So add to court, even though I got like 10 books behind a reading. So I do think, though it depends what it is, but in specifically in this case, books that you're collecting, I think it's a, I think it's a good habit, I think it's almost it's it's giving you a basis for a good habit of reading, because if it's, if you don't have access to it easy access, maybe you have access, but easy access then maybe you won't read. So, like, having a bunch of books behind you um, easy to grab, easy to read, they're accessible might push you to read. It's almost like and we can, we can apply this, you can expand on in this with anything creative Like, let's say, you're an artist who likes to paint, but your paints in your basement in a box and all your canvases are in a box, like the odds of you like saying one day, you know what, let me go down there and pull it out to paint.
Speaker 1:It might happen from time to time. If you enjoy it, but if it's in the way, if you have in the middle of the living room the paint's already there, the you know the whatever other tools you'll need to the brushes, then you you might see it and be more moved to paint because it's in your way. All the time you're like oh, I haven't painted in a long time, let me do such thing. So like in that sense is where I relate to it, where I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing yep, uh.
Speaker 2:the next thing I wanted to talk about is some practices, because he he's it's a very practical book, if you think about it that way. It's not just theoretical or just ideas. He also mentions a lot of things you can actively do to be more creative or be more likely to achieve your goals in whatever realm that you're trying to get better at and improve, and it's something that was sort of a new idea to me was keeping a swipe file.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you remember that part yeah, you mentioned, you know a file where you keep track of anything that you've swiped of or maybe took in, taken from other people or being inspired by, and that could be as simple as something digital on your phone where you take a screenshot, like and put in a folder of a video or a podcast.
Speaker 2:Or maybe you know a picture that you saw that you liked. You like what the artist did there and you're keeping that in a folder. Or maybe it is something that you keep in, not a digital way, where you write down ideas and you kind of mention I listened to this podcast, talked about this and I really enjoyed it. And as long as you keep that, you're more likely to be always thinking about things that are worth imitating in other people, whether it's the way they did a podcast, the way they took a picture, whatever it is that you're trying to do creatively. Some of these ideas are more theoretical, but when you find a good piece of advice, that's something practical that you can start doing today, or maybe even start the process of buying something like a diary or something where you can write down your idea as a journal. It's something that anyone that wants to get better about being creative could do from today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that was a cool piece of advice, and, again, for me, I feel like maybe all of us that consume or read, we're almost trying to and you mentioned it earlier trying to find authors that were able to put into words things you already felt, and I feel like, for example, this swipe file. I have like a notes thing on my phone, where usually I only have like quotes or poems that I always add to like in a movie. Oh, that was a cool phrase. Let me write that down and I write it down, I write it down.
Speaker 1:And again, the mistake, though, or not the mistake, the thing I haven't been doing at this, or mine I mean to do is that, if you're ever in a funk, he recommends that, if you don't know what to do, go back to that file and just see how you were, why were you impacted by these things, and maybe that will stir you up to start creating again. But I do think there's a lot of value in like writing things down, because it's almost like you're hoping for future, you to be impacted by this thing, like you already impacted at one time. But the value of that quote, that picture, now increases because you and you get to enjoy it again in the future, instead of just consuming it and then forgetting it forever. You're kind of retaining that idea. Do you already do this like? Do you have a practice of doing this in some shape or form?
Speaker 2:So what I've done because a lot of times when I'm interacting with more creative people has been online lately, and so what I like to do especially like on Instagram or TikTok is there's two different ways to like or maybe save things inside of those platforms. Right, you have the heart, and with the heart, I like anything that I find funny, interesting. It could be random, it could be, you know, across a whole wide range of topics. I just like it. But there's also a bookmark bookmark icon, and the bookmark icon I use exclusively for ideas that were important, maybe books that they recommended, that I was like oh, maybe I want to read that later, and that kind of helps me sort between the two. Right, because there's things that I find funny and cool, that I might not know how to use, or maybe I haven't thought about ways to use it in a creative way, so I just want to like those. So I want to see more of that. I find it funny, I find it interesting.
Speaker 2:But then there's other things, like book recommendations, ideas that were explained very well, that may relate to, you know, podcasting or some other creative pursuit that I want to do, or maybe even start a business. That's a creative pursuit as well. Um, and I bookmark those ideas because I want to have an access to those. That's a little bit different, that's a little more selective. Um, in the past I have like written down things. Lately I'm finding I've been finding it more difficult to carry a notepad in my pocket. It would be a good practice, but I I personally, don't do it.
Speaker 1:Maybe I should start yeah, I think that's a good uh piece of advice to those who aren't using this feature. I actually don't really use that feature personally. Um, something that I've been, because, again, I don't really write, I try journaling, bro, I think journaling, if you can do it, it's so helpful, like it's so helpful. I do think that, man, it's hard for me to start the habit. I I tried, uh, when I did the the podcast with, like sarah and she does a lot of journaling but, um, but it was just hard for me. So what I did do, I started doing audio messages to myself, almost like an audio journal. I'm not sure if that's a thing, sort of like.
Speaker 2:Michael Scott from the Office. You're like book idea. Literally I'm.
Speaker 1:Michael, there you go, there you go. Yeah, that's kind of helped me a little bit to collect my thoughts or how I was feeling, how I consumed it, but it's not easy.
Speaker 2:It's not easy, for sure. You know someone that I've always considered to be a creative person has been you right Like, ever since I met you. I you were taking. You're pursuing something like photography. Lately you've been doing podcasts or starting businesses. All of those are creative pursuits and you're probably familiar with this term that the book discusses briefly, even though we'll probably discuss future books that talk about this a bit more in depth but it's the idea of an imposter syndrome or having that imposter syndrome and it's very prevalent, we could say, in people that are a bit more educated that might feel like I'm better than this. In a way, you know like and don't like that idea of feeling like they're know like and don't like that idea of feeling like they're not as smart or maybe as real as they are like. Have you felt that like throughout your creative pursuits?
Speaker 1:I, I, yeah, I think that that's something you're always running away from, or how I'm feeling is I try not to let that stop me from creating, but it is hard sometimes because the way the value system goes in society is like well, you need a paper or a school to tell you that you know, what you're doing, but maybe you know let's use like cooking, for example.
Speaker 1:Let's say you love to cook and you have all these recipes your family gave you. You've always cooked and everyone always compliments you. But once you want to start like a business of a restaurant, you might feel like, well, I didn't go to school for culinary, I can't just start a business, even though you might have experience and people love it. You might hold yourself back because of a paper that says you're a pro. Hold yourself back because of a paper that says you're a pro. I think that's how I've always felt because I didn't go to formally. I didn't go to any school and I think creatively.
Speaker 1:It's kind of hard to be honest with you because school sometimes my fear with going to school in creative fields is that you're taught some valuable things. But I also think you're heavily influenced by those things, even though we're we're we're recommend. This book recommends to be influencing by others. But it's almost like a cookie cutter like this is what a wedding photo looks like, this is what this looks like, and it almost stunts your creativity because a professional told you it should look this way, even though you feel like, well, I get why that looks good.
Speaker 1:But I kind of like it this way, you know, and my fear was, or one of my fears is being maybe overly influenced where it stops my own feelings towards my my thing. So I don't know. I think over over time I've been able to manage it better because, especially in the beginning, it was really hard for me to. When people started paying me for photography, I didn't want to charge them because, like, yeah, well, I didn't go to school. Like what do you mean? Like how much do I charge? I don't know, bro.
Speaker 2:Like but I think you mentioned that because you know like there's a common you know saying a bunch among business owners, right, and it's that employees go to college.
Speaker 2:You know people that end up working for people that are creative or that maybe didn't go to these institutions end up employing these people that learn the right way, and it's kind of like, you know, photography is a perfect uh, perfect way of illustrating this. Right, there's a photography degree you can get in many colleges and you might be able to learn the correct way or the right way to approach certain endeavors like videography or photography. You know professional photography, wedding photography but if you learn the correct way, do you think that kind of hinders finding a better way, finding the best way or a different way? Because I feel like that's what happens, like if you go to college and you are influenced by all these people that know the correct way to do something, you learn the correct way. You're like, oh, actually this is pretty good, whereas if you didn't learn that maybe you would have trial and error fallen many times, taking some ugly pictures done some bad podcasts but eventually you could have been finding the best way to do this like a better way that's different.
Speaker 2:It goes back to that quote of I think it was Henry Ford or someone that created cars and he said if I would have asked people what they needed, they would have told me they needed a faster horse and I created a car. Like they would have never told me they wanted a car.
Speaker 1:That's true. I do think again, I'm not trying to say there isn't value in, like creative schools, I think there is. I think you, you do have to have a lot of self-discipline to not let it over cloud your own creativity. I think, for example, I can't, even though I love photography I've been doing it for so much years. I do think I'd feel overwhelmed if national geographic came calling and said like, hey, go shoot this. I would feel overwhelmed because I would feel like that imposter syndrome.
Speaker 1:Well, what do they? What is the industry standard that they expect? Because I don't know. But if they came calling because they saw my work and they're like no, well, do you but shoot this specific thing, well then I'm not that worried. Yeah, I'll take the job, the job, whatever, let's do it, I'll have fun with it. I think my worry would be in that case when it's like what's the industry standard and can you create that industry standard? I'm not sure if I personally can, maybe I can by force, like I just say yes to everything, like I'll figure it out, you know.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, we'll probably discuss this, this idea, a lot more in the future, because I'm beginning to feel the imposter syndrome with this podcast like. Am I a podcaster? Probably not, not yet no I have to, you know, find ways in the future to internalize those accomplishments. You know, maybe the idea is, if you record a podcast, then guess what you're a podcaster like yeah, I think that's the thing is.
Speaker 1:Like redefining these, like these titles, you know, like, yeah, again, like, and there's balance, right, you can't, I just can't go out and say I'm a doctor, right. Like there's balance, um, to these titles, but at least in a creative standpoint, as long as you're not lying to somebody, like promising something you can't give them, you know, because you don't have the tools or you don't have the knowledge. I don't think it's wrong, because I do think. I mean, there's a part of the book that also talks about faking it until you making it.
Speaker 1:Until you make it yeah this is kind of relates to this, where it's like don't outright lie about something you can't do, but don't don't stop learning just because your instagram bio says podcaster, now you know, like, like, don't stop like, don't say like, oh, I made it. Like the little thing says I'm a podcaster and I see this a lot. I mean, maybe we'll talk about it later when we talk about more business books, but there's a lot of people who call themselves like entrepreneur or I can't pronounce the word, you can. You pronounce it?
Speaker 1:you're better and entrepreneur there you go, yeah, okay yeah, I think there's a lot of people like they're like self-claimed you know all these things, but almost by claiming that title itself, they stop learning, you know. So I think that's where we have to be careful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I do want to discuss that. Next point. You brought up the fake it till you make it, because he goes into that phrase a little bit deeper than a lot of different authors that I've encountered that speak about this, because he says that there's two ways of interpreting or reading that quote fake it till you make it. And the first one is pretend to be something you're not until you are. Fake it until you're successful, until everyone sees the way you want them to see you. Everyone sees you the way you want them to see you. That's interpretation number one, and some people might agree with that one.
Speaker 2:Interpretation number two, and personally the one that I resonated with a bit more, was pretend to be making something until you're actually making something.
Speaker 2:And that's the way I feel, like, about this podcast, right, like maybe it's too early to say we've made it and we have a podcast, but if we record five, 10, 20 episodes, then at that point you know maybe we are, and that's the reason I like that definition or that way of thinking about fake it till you make it. It takes away the power from other people, right? The first one is do something or pretend to do something until other people see you that way this one doesn't involve others, this one's just me. Pretend to be doing something until you're actually doing something. Guess what? If you say you're an author just because you wrote one, 100, 200, 500 essays or five different novels, then at that point you could claim to have made it and you probably won't feel that you know imposter syndrome or whatever else you want to call it yeah, I think that this, uh, that that quote faking until you're making it is something.
Speaker 1:I never heard that second definition before and I resonated with that definition more as well, because it almost takes away. People have told me that, describing me like, oh, you're faking it until you make it, but for me it takes away from like it's again. It's like taking away from my desire. It's almost saying I'm doing it for others instead of doing it for me. You know it's like um, but by practicing until I become what I want to become, I think that's more beautiful and gives you more credit than just trying to be something you're not.
Speaker 1:I don't think that's wrong, because it motivates you, if you love it, to keep growing. But at some point I feel like you should transition from definition one to definition two. Maybe you can start at one and be like, oh, I look up to this person, I want to be like this person, let me be better. But at some point you got to make it your own, and I think that's where I'm at, where it's like I, I'm doing it for me more than others. And do I think I'm ever any anywhere near close to what I want to be? No, but my goal is to keep trying to get there and I'll always portray myself like I am there, you know, like even though I not, might not feel it, I'll portray it. Yeah, what's up, I'll portray it.
Speaker 2:But internally I know that I always want to keep growing yeah, so I don't know if you want to discuss something next, but I do have a couple of more of the practical things he mentioned we could do to avoid getting stuck. Yeah, but also some of the activities and actions we can take to be more creative. Did you want to discuss something else before that point?
Speaker 1:I have one that probably fits into this, or you can you know.
Speaker 1:Correct me if I'm wrong and it's something I, man, I was like this is so smart and I think that, um, if you ever feel stuck, this can be a good way to get you out of that, out of that funk is that he says creativity is subtraction. Um, and at first, when you read that is like what do you mean? You know what do you mean? Creativity subtraction, he says he encourages to limit yourself and by limiting yourself, it increases your, um, your creativity. And he used the example of dr seuss. Like one of his writers challenged him to write a, write a book with like 50 words or 60 words or something, and then he came up with green egg, green eggs and ham it's one of the best-selling children books of all time. And, like, limits push you to be creative. And I and I really agree with that like, what do you think?
Speaker 2:no, I think that's a perfect way, um, to kind of spark creativity, right, because if you had the perfect scenario every time for starting a podcast, a business, you know, filming a movie, you had an unlimited budget. You know it might lead to some pretty bad results, but when you're limited you have to be more creative, you have to because if you have an unlimited budget, guess what?
Speaker 2:You go out there and you hire the best writers, you hire the best filmmakers, you hire, and you end up with something that's maybe good but it's not really yours. It's something that you kind of gave to someone else. The same thing like if you, for example I think I had highlighted that quote as well because I really enjoyed that little story about Dr Seuss. It was a bet and you know how bets can make us act unrationally. And if you think about it, his boss was definitely really smart, right, like he was an intelligent person. Because this is a children's book and it was pretty long, 236 different words. It might have been good, but the fact that it was 50 made him choose, like, okay, every specific word here mattered, like it was there, because he intended it to be there, and the reader, you know, can feel that the same thing.
Speaker 2:I listened to a quote, not in this book but a while back, from a public speaker and I think he goes around giving conferences and he mentioned maybe it was a presidential candidate, I believe and he mentioned if you give me an unlimited timeframe to talk about a topic, I don't need to prepare, I can go up there right now and I'll start talking because it doesn't matter, like I'll just start blabbing and whatever comes out comes out. Now, if you give me 10 minutes, then I need a day to prepare because I only have 10 minutes. If you give me only five minutes, okay, I need maybe a week, like, or two weeks, to prepare, but if you only give me one minute, that's going to be hard. Like I need a month. I need a month to prepare for that Because I have to be more selective.
Speaker 2:Well, the same thing with us, like if we constrain ourselves to like, hey, I'm going to create this during this lunch, like I have to come up with an idea right now, and you subtract all these other things, like, oh, I need a new laptop, I need to, you know, have a better circumstance, and you just remove all of that and you force yourself to act or create something in this constraint, you're going to end up doing it probably better. The same thing. I think it's honestly very dangerous to start a business with an unlimited budget.
Speaker 2:It's much better to follow the advice of starting a business without any startup capital, because then you're probably going to end up doing more of the work, you're going to end up having to do some of these creative things instead of hiring someone else to do them, and I think that a lot of people stop themselves from creative because of that feeling of a perfectionism a little bit, having the best equipment.
Speaker 1:and again I relate to this, when you were talking, I was thinking of, like when I, when I started out as a you know photography um, a lot of people then I started being jealous of others, others that had more money to buy better equipment that I wish I had.
Speaker 1:But I do think, like you say, starting off at a higher point reduces your growth. Maybe you get higher quality content faster, but your personal growth is much slower. But your personal growth is much slower Because I think if you start with I don't know, the Walgreens $10 camera and you go out there and that's your budget, you got to get really creative to make that $10 camera do work for you, you know, compared to like balling out buying yourself a $2,000 body Sony camera or Canon or whatever Nikon with the best lens, like you're going to get awesome pictures, but your personal growth is going to be stunted because you don't know why. You know that camera does such thing for you to to make it look that way, and that can be applied in a variety of things and I think that's the best advice you can give to a creative or someone who wants to be creative is to just create. Don't focus on anything else, just create.
Speaker 1:um, yeah and I think that's why and that's why I'm proud of us, because you know we don't, we don't have a perfect setup right now and um, but we're trying. We got a mic, we got you know, we got a webcam. You know you're in arizona, I'm in mexico city, that's not stopping us, you know, and then maybe one day we'll we can afford a studio. That'd be sick, but but for now we just got to keep creating and I don't think that should limit you.
Speaker 1:And I do think when you're um, when you're talking about the illustration, about the movies, people with a great budget still make terrible films. You know, I can't think of many box office movies that had like a 300 million dollar budget and it failed terribly. But then you had napoleon dynamite that had like 10 grand, I believe I remember, if I remember correctly, of their budget or less, I think it was less. It was like the biggest movie with like the lowest budget. But what made it good was the dialogue, the comedy, like it was simple ideas. Sometimes, when you have so much options, you don't know what combos will look good together because you have so many, like it's overwhelming. So that's why I do think creativity is subtraction. Personally, it's like amazing now.
Speaker 2:I wanted to discuss things that can help us be more creative, and this is a common activity or something that you could practice. It doesn't mean it's easy. It is kind of a harder ask from anyone, especially in today's day and age, and that is take the time to be bored why I think it's so difficult is.
Speaker 2:we live in a world where it's, strangely enough, easier to be entertained, to have something taking up your mind you know your attention than it is to be bored Like. If you ask a random kid or teenager when was the last time they just sat down and stared at a wall? They're probably not going to remember when was the last time they just sat down and stared at a wall. They're probably not going to remember, but they will remember the latest TikTok, the latest meme, whatever it is that took their attention. Now, why do you think the author gave this advice? Do you really find value in it? Or do you think it's one of those advice people gave but it's really not applicable or beneficial in daily life?
Speaker 1:I think so, man. I think that's why I enjoy cardio, because I think it's like this runner state where you're just doing a consistent habit and your mind is just clear. I do think there's a lot of value in being bored, because it allows for your own creative juices to flow. Flow, I guess, because you're. Again, if you're constantly taking, taking in things, then your mind never has a time to have its own thoughts. You know so. Like that's why there's like, like, not the joke, but like the like. The best thoughts come in the shower right. Like, yeah, it's because you're just sitting there, the water's running. You're not, you're just, you know, taking a shower. You're not doing anything crazy. Yeah, so your mind is more open to think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in your mind. You know, a lot of times we feel like we're always in control of our mind and I actually want to discuss a book that talks about that a little bit more. But when you see your mind as sort of a separate entity in a way like think about when you're dreaming, when you're asleep, you're not in control, but still your mind is producing something. It's even kind of a visual output that you see and visualize. Your mind is kind of this little box where you feed it. You know it, all this input. But if you just give it time to process it, sometimes when you're bored, it just kind of connects things for you and it just kind of spits this out.
Speaker 2:Um, which is hard nowadays, because you know, as this quote, he mentioned a co-worker. He said when I get busy, I get stupid. And that's contrary to what most leaders, business, uh, you know, people and people in general, people in general right now kind of brag about being busy. That's like the greatest accomplishment. Oh, I've been so busy I don't even have time to give you a call.
Speaker 2:But when you think about the fact that if you don't take that time to be bored, to just relax, maybe look at a wall, remove all digital devices and just start thinking or meditating on a book that you're reading, whatever it is that you're doing, just letting your mind take over, you might be missing out on a lot of cool ideas, a lot of cool things or a lot of problem solving.
Speaker 2:Right, because you, if you start meditating about a problem and you start meditating, meditating, you might not find the answer. Like this happened to me a lot of times, where I'm in the middle of a conversation trying to recall a quote or an idea or you know a person, person's name, and I just can't get it. For some reason it just completely escaped my mind. But instead of Googling it, instead of just taking the easy way out. You know like you could easily find out the name of the movie if you just Google it, but instead of doing that, I just put it all aside, continue the conversation without that fact, or continue talking with my wife, or whatever it is that I'm doing, and then out of nowhere, the idea or the name comes up.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that's happened to you, but it happens to me often, and that's one of the benefits of being bored and just letting your mind do the work yeah, I want to ask you, like, when you think of like the you know, like, for example, your business ideas, like anything you've like, again, brilliant a little bit much, but like the book uses, like, oh, the brilliant ideas come when you're bored. Like, can you think of an idea? I mean you don't have to share the idea, but where were you Like, what were you doing when that idea came to your head? I'm trying to see if we can connect like this concept to like, maybe, the ideas we've had like maybe the ideas we've had.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's been for smaller things up until now. Um, I've I wanted to discuss something that relates to this, and it's the quote by steve jobs you can't connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect them looking backwards right and I think that's happened a bit more often than okay, the idea of you know, being bored and randomly getting this amazing idea but okay in a way that that also kind of talks about what you're discussing, right, like getting good ideas or good business ideas or whatever it is that you're thinking.
Speaker 2:You have to have this kind of mentality where I don't know why I'm doing this, like I can even say this about this podcast, I don't know why, like I'm doing all this, you know effort to put this out there. I enjoy just talking with you. I could have done this with the recording.
Speaker 2:We could just talk yeah, yes every couple of weeks, but I know that maybe in the future, looking back at now, I'll be able to see. You know what that was actually cool. I learned to articulate my ideas and how to share them better. You know, I got more comfortable being uncomfortable and vulnerable because, you know, putting things where people to judge and be out, there is kind of a vulnerable spot to be in and that's something that you know Steve Jobs mentioned in his autobiography. No, it's biography, not autobiography. He didn't write it. That's probably another book we can discuss in the future, but he mentioned, you know, before Apple was created, he went to college. He dropped out, but he started taking some courses after he dropped out on heliography I'm probably mispronouncing calligraphy, I think calligraphy is it like writing yeah, like different hand
Speaker 2:yeah, and he said that he took that and he was interested by it, but he had no idea why he did it. He just he just did it, he enjoyed it. But then later on, when he was creating the iMac, he told the engineers you need to include this in there. Whoever is creative might want to use different fonts and different sizes and all these different designs that he had learned during that class. And that's kind of when he says this quote of you can't connect the dogs looking forward. If you try to look at the future and see, oh, this is going to be applicable here and I'm going to get this job and I'm going to get this, you're probably not going to see everything. It's only when you look backwards that you're like, oh, that was a good idea, like I just did it because I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:But it connects when you look back and I think that has happened to me a lot.
Speaker 2:You know, one of probably the biggest cases of that was my job.
Speaker 2:Like when I was in high school I read about, you know, being a real estate agent, you know, being more involved in real estate investing and how some people have created, created very successful businesses doing that, even though they didn't go to college and I was like I got to do that.
Speaker 2:So I got my license and ended up getting a job and it's worked out very well, right, and it wasn't that I envisioned that going forward, I wasn't able to see that it's until I look back at that idea that I can connect those dots and be like, oh, that was good, I'm glad that I took that risk of who knows what was going to happen. I mean, it could have ended up like a lot of things that you try and don't work out, but you just need one or two things that do and if you want to be creative, you have to be comfortable with that discomfort of not knowing all the things that will happen, looking forward and just kind of taking that leap, you know, taking that step without seeing the next step and just kind of jumping in and seeing what happens, yeah, and learn to swim right.
Speaker 1:Just dive in and learn to swim right. Just dive in and learn to swim. I think try more things and fail faster. You know like I'm still.
Speaker 1:I'm stealing this from, like uh, gary v. But he says that a lot fail faster. Um, and I agree with it. I agree with it because a lot of people are especially young people don't know what to do. What do I do with my life? Yeah, um, especially, I mean we're putting a position, especially in the united states, to make it such a big choice at a young age where it's like, oh man, like I'm gonna do this for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:This thing I studied it's such an overwhelming choice. If you don't know exactly what you're gonna do, like a hundred percent. Like the reality is you're probably going to fail. But be okay with that, you know, be okay with that and try more things. You know, if you might like dancing or painting or you know coding, it could be anything. But if you're not trying, you will never. You'll never know, you know, and it's, it's just failing faster. It's okay that I didn't enjoy that. That wasn't fun or it's too much work. I wasn't passionate about it.
Speaker 1:And the reason I was bringing up the uh like, uh, these ideas when they come up, and I like those quotes about Steve jobs, about connecting things in the past, um, I think for me, like when I I have any idea. I won't say they're brilliant, but my ideas is when I'm doing this. Really, is it monotonous Is that the right word? Like, very, like, consistent, like back in New York, when I lived there, I was driving so much, I drove so much. I was driving like three hours, three, four hours a day. So when I was driving, you know, when I was like tired of music, I just had silence, I was just driving in silence. When I was like tired of music, I just had silence, I was just driving in silence. But that's when, like majority of like business ideas came. I was just thinking and thinking and thinking almost too much, it was like overwhelming, but sometimes taking advantage of those moments, you know, of doing a consistent thing.
Speaker 1:I think the author says that he loved ironing, like ironing clothes, because it's so boring for him that that's where he was like creative. So sometimes we as humans or not me, maybe, not because it's humans, but, uh, because we're so addicted to dopamine now because of social media we're not okay being bored. We pick up our phone. I'm sitting on the couch and my habit is to pick up my phone. It's terrible. It's terrible. You're not allowing ourselves to be bored. So forcing yourself to be bored might be the thing to get your creativity flowing.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and I think you said something that was a very good point for anyone listening forcing yourself.
Speaker 2:I think we've grown accustomed to this idea that if it doesn't come natural, it's not meant to be right.
Speaker 2:If you don't go to the gym because you just woke up like you wanted to go out there and work out, it's just not going to benefit your body, which is total nonsense, right?
Speaker 2:If you work, woke up like you wanted to go out there and work out, it's just not gonna benefit your body, which is total nonsense, right. If you work out, whether you're there with tears in your eyes or, you know, joy in your, in your heart, you worked out your body got the same result. You eventually want to get to a point where you enjoy it because you, you'll do more the things you enjoy. But if you have to force yourself initially to take on this practice of being bored, of just kind of letting things go and just sitting there, whether it's 10 minutes, five minutes, whatever spare time you can have, instead of taking the easy way out your phone and just scrolling social media, if you can do that, you might reap benefits and it's not going to happen immediately, so don't do it. You know once and then be like oh, this doesn't work, I didn't get the brilliant idea that was going to change my life.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to do it ever again.
Speaker 2:You know you have to just keep the habit.
Speaker 2:And if you do that, eventually you're going to probably look forward to those moments of boredom where you just kind of sit there and mean think of how relaxing that could be probably, if you just sit there and wait, let your mind kind of process some of the information that you put into it in the last couple of days, maybe even try to tackle a problem, and if you do that, you know, multiple times per day, or maybe multiple times per week at least, I think you're gonna get some good results.
Speaker 2:And I mean the brain is a powerful thing, like we'll probably discuss that more in future books, so I don't want to like burn that bridge too much right now, but one of the chapters does talk about the brain and it says your brain gets too comfortable in everyday surroundings. So what he recommends is this idea of making it uncomfortable and his solution to that is to travel. And he says travel makes the world look new and when the world looks new, our brains work harder. You're someone that has put that into practice a lot this last couple of years, right, you've lived in multiple places multiple different environments. The last change was probably like multiple different cultures that you've been exposed to.
Speaker 1:What can?
Speaker 2:you say, like how can you, do you relate to this quote? Do you think it's a lie? Do you think it's true? Like what do you feel?
Speaker 1:No, I agree. I think growth is when you're not comfortable. That's when you grow the most, because you learn to appreciate things that maybe you already have in your life, um, but it also teaches you like different cultures, teach you that there's other ways to live, I guess, like there isn't just one way. I think that sometimes we seek like what's what's the fastest way to make money? Or what's this, what's the best way to cook? It's always like this, like like what's what's the fastest way to make money, or what's this what's the best way to cook? It's always like this, like there's like one solution to life. Yeah, but I think that when you travel and you see other people living differently than you ever lived, that you ever experienced, it tells you like, hey, like you're not right, like and they're not right and no one's right. Yeah, but you get to pick and choose and learn from different cultures and being uncomfortable, like you're not right, like and they're not right and no one's right. Yeah, but you get to pick and choose and learn from different cultures and being uncomfortable and you no doubt grow. Because if you're in your comfort zone it's like we kind of touched upon it in this conversation a little bit. But if you're in a comfort zone all the time, like, odds are you're not going to grow much, so I do agree, I know odds are you're not going to grow much, so I do agree, I know that. I guess the caveat.
Speaker 1:Caveat is that the right word to this is that you know it takes money to travel, right, but he recommends, like, okay, let's say you can't travel, well, did just travel within your means, right, whether it's in your town, try new restaurants, go somewhere else. Uh, just change your scenery. Like, for example, even in my case, like I moved, my wife and I moved to mexico city. But you know, after a year or two, like you know, like this is home, um, you to be uncomfortable again, I have to travel, but I don't have to travel far. I can go to a different, uh, a different colonia, a different community. Community, not community a different area I guess what's what a colonia in english?
Speaker 1:a different area, just to see things differently region, yeah, so don't limit yourself, but I do think that traveling teaches you that. It teaches you that you're not right, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:You know and that's totally fine.
Speaker 1:I mean, you've traveled yourself too, so don't say like you haven't.
Speaker 2:Well in this sense, I was referring more to traveling and living, and I have done that a little bit actually with you when we went to. New York. That was kind of a change. It wasn't a new culture, but it was a different environment. It was, you know, being maybe you're accustomed to being around family and that's you're more on your own um.
Speaker 2:So it does kind of force you to think harder, kind of forces your brain to say, okay, we're not in that safe environment anymore, like you're on your own in a way, and that, in a way, it's good. It's's kind of a strange concept, right and this book touches upon it in multiple times where if you force yourself to do hard things, you can see them as blessings instead of curses, like, for example, being bored, right, like it's just comfortable to be bored. I think kids don't like being bored. Adults don't like it either. Like you, like to be entertained. But if you do it, it some good things can happen.
Speaker 2:Being in new environments, like traveling, like you've done maybe I've done a little bit, or maybe some of the listeners have done as well might be uncomfortable, but some good things can come about it.
Speaker 2:And the author mentioned something else he says that what he likes to, what he likes to do, is creative work.
Speaker 2:It's in places with bad weather, and that's contrary to common belief, because most people look for that perfect weather, right, where it's never too hot, never too cold, that perfect town where everything's nice.
Speaker 2:But if you happen to live, like I, happen to live in a place that's extremely hot in the summer, or, like you, in the winter when you lived in new york. There's a couple months where you know multiple days at a time you probably can't even leave home. That's extremely hot in the summer, or, like you, in the winter when you lived in New York. There's a couple months where you know multiple days at a time you probably can't even leave home. Well, instead of seeing like, oh man, this is terrible, you might say, oh, guess what, I got the next two days that I can, you know, invest in my project. I can start writing, I can record my next episode, I can do whatever it is that I'm trying to do, and start seeing the life around us and those challenges as benefits, like as things that can kind of propel us forward, instead of the other way yeah, and I think that is the key.
Speaker 1:I think it's traveling with purpose, you know, because because if you travel to like milan, right, and you just I mean, I love milan, don't get me wrong, like, what I'm trying to get to is that if you're just doing touristy things, nothing's wrong with that, right, do it. But if you want to really grow and immerse yourself in the culture, doing touristy things maybe you'll get a hint of it, but you won't. You won't because it's so commercialized. So my best advice, if you have the privilege to travel to do things that are a little bit uncomfortable, right, like, do maybe the local you know find, like nowadays, like with the apps we have, like you can find a, let's say, you go to italy, you can find a airbnb.
Speaker 1:What are those airbnb experiences? Like, oh, like, make the pasta with the you know lady, you know of the town, you know, like things like that. Like, immerse yourself in the culture. Don't do like just like, oh, I'm going to go shopping and this and that, because I don't think you grow much there personally, that's just my opinion. But just be uncomfortable and that's when you grow more.
Speaker 2:Looking for discomfort is kind of a we could say anti-american thing to do, right yeah, we are constantly looking for comfort, whether it is at home or we travel, we want the fanciest hotel. Yeah, we want, you know, to feel like we're at home. But if you look for that discomfort, the benefit is I think joe rogan has talked about this, where he says you know, if you do hard things, if you force yourself to do hard things, the benefit is that the rest of life just kind of becomes a little bit less hard. Right?
Speaker 2:If you just had this, you know, crazy hard workout the rest of your day might be a little bit easier than if you're constantly looking for that comfort. It's funny how life works that way, but it does right. If you look for that discomfort, the rest of the life becomes easier. Like the same thing with being creative If you're constantly trying to just have everything set up perfectly, it might not work out. But if you look for that discomfort being in a place where you're not used to being bored, being around a place where you're not used to being bored you know, being around, maybe bad weather, all these things that could be sources of problems could end up becoming assets in your journey of finding whatever it is that you want to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I have. Maybe we can conclude with one more quote, one more thing that he advises, he says the secret do good work. And this is the key where I want to highlight and share it with people, and we've talked about it a little bit. But how important is sharing your work with others to keep your? How important is that for the creative process? You think?
Speaker 2:Well, I think when you share, it is probably the most vulnerable part of any creative endeavor, right? If you record music and you're the only one that listens to it?
Speaker 2:I mean that's cool, that has its place. But if you are not willing to take any feedback, willing to someone say, hey, man, that was kind of bad, like I didn't enjoy that one, then you might not be able to grow. You always be. You know and this connects to my concluding thought and probably one of the my favorite quotes from the book is if you ever find that you're the most talented person in the room, you need to find another room or so. If you're the best musician because you didn't share with anyone and you think that your music is the best but you haven't actually uploaded it and seen if people like it. I'm not saying measure your success by how much people relate to it, but it does make you grow. When you're able to take in that feedback and say you know, this is me, what do you think? And they give you feedback and you take it in a good way, you can end up with a much better version of whatever it is that you're pursuing, whether it's photography, music, podcasts, whatever it is they're trying to do. I think sharing is a is the best way to keep growing right, because I think anyone kind of maybe when you're starting something, you grow. Then you reach kind of a plateau or you're kind of just there. You know you're not really getting better, but when you share, that's when you can propel forward, right, I mean, everyone does this.
Speaker 2:There's probably a couple other books that we can talk about, but one of them mentions I forgot what the name of it was he mentions that even like neurosurgeons do this. When they've come to a point in their career where they're like an established neurosurgeon, they might think, oh, I'm really good. So how can they grow if everyone around them is kind of maybe even below them? Right, they're their employees, they're the ones that just give them the tools and they're the ones in charge. So what these guys do is they hire a neurosurgeon from somewhere else in the world somewhere you know know renowned and they pay him to come here and look at them, do the surgery, and then when they do that, it's kind of a vulnerable position to be in right, because this other guy that you know is probably like very experienced as well, more experienced than you is not looking at you.
Speaker 2:Do this, you're sharing the way you work, but by doing that they can get tips from this other guy and keep on growing. You know, not plateau and not get stuck in that way. So I think, whatever it is that you do, it's important to get started right and the iteration getting it done, getting the reps in, is probably the most important part. But when you share it it just kind of propels you forward to making a better product. And you know, I think a lot of people like to hoard ideas and kind of protect them like babies. You don't want to do that. You want to get it like a soccer ball, just kick it around. What do you care? Do you like it? Are you going to kick it back?
Speaker 2:If we do that then we can really, you know, have something. It's not just the ideas, but it's kind of the way you execute them. So sharing them gives other people the opportunity to kind of give you feedback, and I think that's very important for anyone listening that's trying to do something new, trying to take on a project. You know, don't be afraid to share it. And it is vulnerable, it is scary. I mean, maybe for you it hasn't been, you're used to it, but for me it is no.
Speaker 1:Uh, but if you do it, you know good things will come about yeah, and the reason I wanted to kind of conclude with this, because this is probably the part of the hardest thing that that I had to I'm still coming to terms with, especially with my photography. Maybe with like podcasts, I wouldn't. I haven't been overly crucial with myself because, like for me, like well, I, I don't consider myself a podcaster, like what. What am I to judge myself on? You know, like, but but like, for example, I'll just use my myself as an example.
Speaker 1:With photography, you know, I've taken tens of thousands of photos and I'm talking about just like the photos that I enjoy taking. Now, I'm not talking about work, like you know, just like weddings and stuff. I'm talking about photos I wanted to take I've shared. I have like tens of thousands on my terabytes full of photos I've taken, but if you look at my Instagram, I've only shared like 200, you know. And the reason for it is because sometimes, again, you can be your worst critic, you know, especially if you're really passionate about something, you hold yourself back. You know, because you're scared. And the thing is like it's weird, because I'm not scared of the judgment, I'm more scared. That they won is like it's weird, because I'm not scared of the judgment. I'm more scared that they won't like it like for me, like if they judge it with like eyes of like oh you could have done this better. I don't care about that, I'll take all that advice. I'm more like they won't like it like and who they is.
Speaker 1:I have no idea. Right like, but right. But it's held me back with my photography a little bit.
Speaker 1:I feel like anything I post has to be like you know, principled version, you know, worthy to hang on a wall, and I've gotten better, at least the past year, of just posting. You know I like it. Like, let me just share it Like. Why does it have to be? You know a studio version of a photo? You know, just share it Like. Why does it have to be? You know a studio version of a photo? You know, just share it.
Speaker 1:So that's why I chose this like last quote, because I think it's something I just keep have to work on. I'm trying to keep working on. Did I say that right? I'm trying to keep working on Because I do think that when you really love something, you do want people to like it. You know, really love something, you do want people to like it. You know, and if you share it and you feel like, oh man, people didn't respond the way I thought they would respond, like you already have pre, you have expectations already of what outcomes, then you might stop yourself from sharing.
Speaker 1:So I do think this advice is key for anyone anyone to create is just just share it. And I think I think, looking back, I'm proud of you get to see your progress, of how you got better compared if you didn't share anything at all. Yeah, and maybe also if I give another piece of advice is change again I'm talking to myself in the past is that view your post or your work on social media as a gallery to yourself, like you, just feel you, and if people it's like if you have a gallery in a business, like on a main street, like you, sit in the gallery, you're immersed in it. People can choose to walk in or not, but it's your gallery and be proud of that gallery and I think that's what I'm trying to come to terms with just being proud of my gallery and people walk in great, you know, but do it for you, you know that's.
Speaker 2:That's great advice. I think I want to do something a little different for this. Concluding thoughts.
Speaker 2:In my end, you know, I want to share a poem, or actually in this case I think it's a quote by theodore roosevelt that I think really applies to some of the lessons that we went over in this book. Still, like an artist and here he mentions, it is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives brilliantly, who errs, who comes short again and again because there is no effort without error and shortcoming, but who does actually strive to do the deeds, who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Speaker 2:That is related to some of the lessons we went over today and something to think. You know, if you're striving to do something new, something creative that maybe you're afraid to do. Don't give too much credit to those people on the sidelines. It's the people that fail, the people that are in the middle, that you should listen to, and if you do that, at the end of it the worst that can happen is that you come to realize that you didn't enjoy something and you stop. But don't stop because other people make you to stop. Just give it a try that was powerful.
Speaker 1:I thought you were telling it to me, man because I like it's, yeah, it's, it's so powerful and just do, just create. And I think that if you are in a in a funk, uh, creative funk, uh, this is a book we recommend. Still, like an artist um, he will probably go over his. He has other books eventually that we'll probably talk and read and talk about. But if you are in a in a funk or you already consider yourself a creative person but you haven't shared anything yet, this might you get you started, give you that spark to get started and and hopefully carlos and I can start. You know we're trying to apply these things because we're starting this project. This is only episode two, so, uh, you know, check the receipts when we're in episode 100 and hopefully we've gotten better and thank you for anyone who's listening and yeah, we appreciate the support and yeah, so that that's. That was episode number two Sounds good, see you next time.
Speaker 2:And that wraps up our discussion for this episode.
Speaker 1:We hope you enjoyed diving into this topic as much as we did.
Speaker 2:If you found value in our conversation, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review, and share this episode with your friends and anyone else who loves to learn. We've got more exciting topics coming up, so stay tuned.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us on Re-Enrolled. Until next time, keep learning and stay curious.
